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Extragastrointestinal manifestations of Helicobacter pylori infection: Facts or myth?

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by nanonug, Apr 21, 2012.

  1. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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  2. Xandoff

    Xandoff Michael

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    nanonug,

    My ME CFS started with an ulcer that supposedly came about because of taking vioxx. When I went off the Vioxx my neck and shoulder pain (inflammation, spinal stenosis and DDD etc) went through the roof (2001). It all started with the ulcer and of course I was a severe asthmatic as a child with 65 allergies. Gentics? I am XMRV positive and just got my Nagalase levels back today at 1.9 (ref range 0.32-0.95)

    Hunab Ku Mandala.jpg
     
  3. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi Xandoff, my understanding is that Vioxx was created specifically to avoid causing ulcers. It is a COX-2 inhibitor, which means it should not target much in the gastrointestinal tract. This implies, if I am correct about this, that something else caused the ulcers. Other NSAIDs perhaps, especially aspirin, are the leading candidates. If you can eliminate those you are back to H. pylori as the next leading candidate.

    Vioxx on the other hand will severely disturb your hormonal balance via blocking most series 2 eicosanoids. Nobody really understands what the long term consequences of that are, even though we known many may have died from it. Vioxx was a great drug for very short term use - but a nightmare for long term use.

    Bye, Alex
     
  4. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    Heliobacter Pylori is also able to produce H2S, so fits nicely into Dr De Meirleir's previous dysbiosis theories for ME. Also fits into Martin Pall's list of chemical capable of instigating the vicious cycle for MCS via TRP receptor activation.

    Has never showed up positive for me on urea breath test, stomach biopsy or any of the 4 Metametrix GI Effects I've had done in 2 1/2 years. Could be a problem for others though.
     
  5. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    Helicobacter pylori can be found in about half of all humans. In most of them it does not seem to cause disease. It is not clear why it sometimes causes serious problems. To my mind this is yet another indication of an underlying immune defect, and not necessarily one present from birth. Attempts to trace a causal connection between the bacteria and the disease will fail in those cases where correlation is due to indirect causation by an undetected underlying pathogen.

    If you read the literature on retroviral diseases in other species you will find that retroviruses often target phagocytes that defend against bacteria which are widespread or endemic in a species. These provide convenient cover for the virus. Other viruses may also target these cells, but retroviral infections with long latency would be the most difficult to find.
     
  6. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    This can't be explained by a difference in virulence of different strains of Heliobacter Pylori? There seems to be a bunch of studies out there in regard to this, but I'm feeling too lazy to read any today. :D

    hixxy
     
  7. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Have a look at this article:

    "Vacuolating Cytotoxin and Variants in Atg16L1 That Disrupt Autophagy Promote Helicobacter pylori Infection in Humans"

    I just so happen to be homozygous for the risk allele (I am GG). In my case, I don't even need a retrovirus to screw me over. My own immune system does that for me.
     
  8. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    My CDSA was also negative, but my blood and stool test done by my gp were both positive. I may still use some tests by metamertix , genova,spectracell,.... as I have done before, but I will never trust them 100%.
     
  9. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    One of the reasons I decided to do the Metametrix GI Effects this time is that it uses PCR technology to look for genetic markers for a bunch of nasties. Both sensitivity and specificity are much higher than the culture method used in the CDSA.
     
  10. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    Which CDSA did you have done? I presume the stool test with your GP was an antigen test? I'm pretty sure the Metametrix one is antigen.
     
  11. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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  12. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    Most people in my birth country are infected with H pylori and stomach cancer is the most prevalent type of cancer among my countrymen.
     
  13. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    I am homozygous for risk allele T for Rs10210302 (ATG16L1). Increased risk of chrohns disease.
     
  14. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    I did the complete profile by genova. I do not know anything about my gp's test. He retested me after HP protocol and this time I was tested negative. Sombody else on the forum also mentioned his metamatrix test results was very different from the test done by bioscreen lab.
     
  15. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Nope, not antigen, it's genetic marker detection after PCR.
     
  16. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    I have not done any genetic testing, but I am sure I have a low level of crohn's disease which is the root cause of my muscle pain. My gp says it is ibs because my scan did not show anything , but he is the most ignorant and narrow minded doc I have ever seen in my whole life.
     
  17. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    Interesting. Apparently the stool antigen test is highly accurate? Maybe I'll get that one done. At least it can be done from home and don't need to beg a doctor to order bloods.
     
  18. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    I am thinking of doing a stool test by dr. omar amin lab. Any experience with this lab? I have heard they are pretty good.
     
  19. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    I have thought about this as well. I saw Rich recommend it on another thread one day too. Let us know how you go if you do use this test!
     
  20. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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