New Atmosphere, New Vision: Gibson and Whittemore Kick Off Invest in ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry reports on Dr. Gibson's introduction and Dr. Whittemore's keynote speech, at the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Exercise therapy beneficial for some ME/CFS patients new Cochrane report says

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by deleder2k, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. deleder2k

    deleder2k Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,120
    Likes:
    4,840
    Exercise therapy beneficial for some ME/CFS patients says the independent Cochrane Collaboration in new meta-analysis on exercise therapy.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/enhanced/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003200.pub3

    Any thoughts on this? Is there no evidence to support the claim that exercise therapy makes some patients worse?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
    leokitten and Esther12 like this.
  2. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    12,783
    Likes:
    34,200
    UK
    Just one word: Oxford.

    They've included studies with the discredited Oxford criteria.
     
    Dolphin, SDSue, beaker and 6 others like this.
  3. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

    Messages:
    4,613
    Likes:
    12,437
    South Australia
    I'm sure if they included "Systemic Exertion Intolerance Disease" patients, they'd get a different outcome right? :cat:
     
  4. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,806
    Likes:
    4,657
    Of course! The spelling is entirely different.
     
    Snow Leopard, halcyon and moosie like this.
  5. user9876

    user9876 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,583
    Likes:
    18,182
    They've not done a very careful review since they mark risk of both incomplete outcome data and selective bias for pace as green which I assume is low. They clearly haven't compared the protocol with the data that they chose to published.

    There results are wrong anyway since the summary stats don't make sense for the scales used.
     
    PennyIA, snowathlete and Valentijn like this.
  6. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,751
    Likes:
    23,189
    It's almost as if SEID was made to counter certain claims about CBT and GET :whistle:
     
    Bob, Roy S, Amaya2014 and 6 others like this.
  7. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,968
    Likes:
    12,807
    Cornwall, UK
    Precise wording:
    Funny, isn't it, that almost everyone here would appear to have a different illness from those which are studied?

    Not a laughing matter though. :(
     
    Sea, Bob, Amaya2014 and 7 others like this.
  8. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

    Messages:
    4,613
    Likes:
    12,437
    South Australia
    How did they decide that the PACE study was not guilty of 'selective reporting' !?!

    Also, none of the 'moderate' findings were follow up data, suggesting further bias.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
    Bob likes this.
  9. Roy S

    Roy S former DC ME/CFS lobbyist

    Messages:
    669
    Likes:
    1,405
    Illinois, USA
    "Assessed as up-to-date: 9 May 2014"
     
    And it's published the same day as the IOM report?
     
    Bob, beaker, Blue and 6 others like this.
  10. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,097
    Likes:
    17,174
    Interesting timing.
     
    Bob, SDSue, beaker and 8 others like this.
  11. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,672
    Likes:
    28,181
    This is open access: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003200.pub3/abstract


    I gave each sentence its own paragraph to make it easier to read
     
    Woolie, snowathlete and Esther12 like this.
  12. Iquitos

    Iquitos Senior Member

    Messages:
    511
    Likes:
    966
    Colorado
    The very phrase exercise "therapy" is nonsensical and misleading. It's part of the propaganda of blame the patient for "fear" of exercise. If these psychobabblers were studying exercise "therapy" for ALS, MS, Parkinson's, polio and cancer, they would get the disdain they deserve. Only with ME/CFS (SEID?) do they have the gall to promote this proven detrimental "therapy."
     
  13. adreno

    adreno PR activist

    Messages:
    4,843
    Likes:
    11,022
    Cochrane reviews are overrated.
     
    Bob and Valentijn like this.
  14. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,968
    Likes:
    12,807
    Cornwall, UK
    This one seems to provide a stark illustration of that. I used to think they had some merit...
     
    Bob and Valentijn like this.
  15. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

    Messages:
    7,968
    Likes:
    12,807
    Cornwall, UK
    Just noticed that there is actually no mention of ME in the review, so they are just supposedly looking at CFS - whatever that is.

    Also noticed that the 'Editorial Group' is the 'Cochrane Depression, Anxiety and Neurosis Group'.

    Would I be right to assume that this would be made up of psychologists and, by inference from what we know about psychology researchers, that they are less rigorous than scientific reviewers?
     
    Amaya2014, PennyIA, Woolie and 4 others like this.
  16. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,380
    Likes:
    8,251
    Ellen Goudsmit has posted this on PubMed Commons http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25674924#cm25674924_9142:


     
    halcyon, Amaya2014, beaker and 13 others like this.
  17. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,380
    Likes:
    8,251
    I'm not sure this is correct. Anyone have evidence she is right?

    I may be biased but I think a good reference for this is my paper:

    I give the results from 10 surveys. I don't believe any other published gives that amount of survey data.
     
    Iquitos, MeSci, Esther12 and 3 others like this.
  18. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,492
    Likes:
    35,117
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    I would like to coin a term, if it does not already exist.

    BIBO

    Babble In, Babble Out

    I don't know who invented GIGO, but it needed an update.

    The underlying flaws of the studies reviewed are ignored in the unjustified hope that they will go away. This might be OK for random bias, but the bias is systemic. Such bias is amplifed by meta-analyses.

    This is an exemplar of what is wrong in "Evidence" Based Medicine. When the underlying studies are given a pass on scientific rigor, guess what happens to the meta-analysis?

    I have found a different use of babble in, babble out, by Joanne Sales http://www.joannesales.com/articles/vacation_freedomfrom.html
     
    Bob, Dolphin, halcyon and 11 others like this.
  19. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes:
    2,710
    Rubbish in -> rubbish out.
     
    Dr Speedy likes this.
  20. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

    Messages:
    5,464
    Likes:
    19,585
    Sadly, many of the Cochrane reviews end up in clinical guidelines for physicians. It is how CBT and GET ended up in clinical guidelines here in British Columbia.

    Many busy physicians (.including those in general practice) couldn't be bothered researching deeper, so they rely on meta analysis to get to the conclusions and direct their practices.

    Papers like these are the most dangerous. (and not the IOM report)
     
    Dolphin, CantThink, lycaena and 4 others like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page