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Exercise, PEM or PENE, and general medical research

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by anciendaze, Aug 8, 2014.

  1. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    Here is an article which explicitly states some things I had deduced, but had not found in print.
    Dangerous Curves : A Perspective on Exercise, Lactate, and the Anaerobic Threshold

    Jonathan Myers; Euan Ashley
    Chest.
    1997;111(3):787-795. doi:10.1378/chest.111.3.787
    My bolding.

    Those changes in lactate levels are particularly significant for ME/CFS patients because we appear to have defects in the mechanisms that clear lactate. Even when it is cleared from peripheral blood it can persist in muscles or cerebrospinal fluid, where it has been found by magnetic resonance spectroscopy (MRS). Other papers suggest that lactate levels are the least reliable of the indicators discussed in this paper. This could be an indirect indication that some researchers had encountered patients with problems clearing lactate.
     
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  2. Mark

    Mark Acting CEO

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    Sofa, UK
    Great stuff Valentijn, that sounds really exciting. I do think this work you're doing has the potential to evolve into something really quite significant in terms of hypothesis-generation, and the maths of all this stuff rather appeals to me so I'm watching with interest. So thanks for what you're doing, and good luck! :thumbsup:
     
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  3. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Cornwall, UK
    I have posted my 1995 step-exercise test results along with early symptoms here.
     
  4. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    Just wanted to bump this topic because I still have not found or been given anything to indicate that the deficits in VO2 max and anaerobic threshold seen in ME/CFS have previously been reported in medical literature for any condition, (with the possible exception of overtraining syndrome, which takes place in presumed healthy athletes at a much higher level of performance. )

    In the process of investigating the literature I have been struck by the persistent confusion about fundamental physiology of exercise in sick people. It seems incredible that most doctors have been trained to promote exercise even in people who exhibit "flu-like symptoms", with only specialists in myocarditis and cardiomyopathy giving warnings. (These warnings overlap those given in the case of cardiac problems resulting from Lyme disease. Considering the trouble patients and doctors both have in confirming that a patient actually has Lyme disease this situation seems absurd. If it often takes six weeks for a patient to develop antibodies which will reveal infection, and if levels fall off in chronic infection, it would seem there is only a small window in which a doctor following current guidelines can give useful advice about a life-threatening complication.)

    This leads me to ask broader questions about the value of medical advice. A visitor from another planet might conclude that prolonged contact with medical doctors is a stronger predictor of morbidity and mortality than smoking.

    Just as we need research distinguishing the cause and effect of exercise and health, so we don't confuse "exercise is the result of health" with "exercise is the cause of health", when we observe the fact that "healthy people exercise more", we also need research to distinguish the results of medical treatment from the presumed intent of that treatment. Once the profession decides some treatment is a good thing, or at least the best option available, it becomes hard to find patients who have not been subjected to that treatment, even if it is known to be seriously flawed. This makes true "evidence-based medicine" nearly impossible.
     
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Anecdotally I have heard that the Ampligen studies used it for ME in the 80s, and Jay Goldstein in the early 90s, but nothing much was publicly reported.
     
  6. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I just found this 2008 study in the ME Research UK database while looking for something else. I can't find the study mentioned on PR from a quick search so thought I'd better post it somewhere before I forget.

    Abstract:

     
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  7. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    I had not seen this paper, and will have to read carefully. I am unfamiliar with the method of measuring oxygenation in the prefrontal lobe using near-infrared spectrophotometry, and will need to read some background on it.
     
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