International ME/CFS and FM Awareness Day Is On May 12, 2018
Thomas Hennessy, Jr., selected May 12th to be our international awareness day back in 1992. He knew that May 12th had also been the birthday of Florence Nightingale. She was the English army nurse who helped to found the Red Cross as well as the first school of nursing in the world.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Excitotoxicty,NMDA, help guide treatment?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by PokerPlayer, Jan 17, 2012.

  1. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

    Hi PokerPlayer, it's funny what you say about D3 and MB12, because those absolutely waste me. But we're all different, not to mention these things change with time. Unfortunately in my case it's always for the worse.

    It would be interesting to compare illness details to see if there are common features along with this manifestation. For instance, from what I've read, it seems pronounced excitotoxicity is more common in those with gradual onset.

    Recently I've been communicating with another member on our forum here who's dealing with this too. His problems started literally overnight while trying to treat KPU with large doses of zinc and B6. I'd tried this protocol as well some time before my excitotoxicity began, though I can't say how close to my ET onset this was.

    I remember reading in Cort's story that it was large doses of zinc that he first realized were giving him that unsustainable energy. Though he doesn't describe this aspect of his illness as excitotoxicity, his symptoms are remarkably like mine: for the first few hours I feel much calmer and more clearheaded, then I get speedy, and then things really start to go off, then I get sweaty feet (that's an odd one). He also had his amalgams out a short while before it started, which was also the case with me. Maybe there's something to the zinc, or it has something to do with mercury mobilization; amalgam removal or the KPU protocol would to exactly this.

    The connection to depression, in my experience, has always been a sort of rebound. If I better my mood with evening primrose oil, meditation, earthing, homeopathy, or whatever, it's exactly that system that gets reversed, or so it feels. As if there's an energy problem within the cell and anything threatening it will be specifically resisted. When you stop the offending substance or activity you go down fast and hard in precisely the same way you were up. I have found myself in suicidal mode after such experiments, (evening primrose oil being the worst) and I'm not at all prone to serious depression. Sounds like you might have this one in spades. It's a good idea to have a routine to employ for gaining perspective in such times.

    Pushing through with meditation sounds scary. I've done three days and my symptoms were getting rather horrendous; hardcore twitching in the arms and legs, arrhythmia, and then when I stop, a serious crash. Do you know anyone for whom this has worked and gone on to improve?
  2. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

    Dufresne- I am curious about the evening primrose as I have been taking that in eve for months as an alt to fish oil as it seems every time I try fish oil I get depressed and or brain fog. doesnt make sense. but havent noticed any obvious problems from primrose altho I have frequent neuro flares and have hard time figuring out from what, usually something I ate or if try new supp or med.

    anyway how long did you try eve primrose?
  3. PokerPlayer

    PokerPlayer Guest

    Seattle, Washington
    Hey Dufresne,

    I'm both really sorry and glad that I am talking to someone with very similar symptoms as mine. About the zinc, it causes severe excitotoxicity in me now. When I take it at night, the next day I get really bad anxiety and depression. When I was doing a lot better when I first started with this illness zinc didn't do anything really to me, I took it every day for 8 months.

    About the d3 and methyl, they don't do anything for me now either. My assumption is that you have to be at a certain health initially for them to do anything. I assume this because just a few months ago I was taking them and they really helped, but I kept doing things really bad for me and pushing my body and I crashed and they just all of a sudden one day stopped doing what they usually did.

    I also have gradual onset cfs. I think the excitotoxicity works like this: you get bad excitotoxicity until your body wears itself out so much that your body gets weak enough where you are taking in such little oxygen that you don't experience excitotoxicity anymore. Thats why I think meditation causes excitotoxicity in part, because 1) you take in more oxygen (toxic to the brain in our case) and 2) you intensely focus, causing your nmda receptors to be more activated.

    I have always used meditation as a guide for me. If I can meditate without increased anxiety or depression, than I am doing the right thing with my body. I just got a prescription for lamictal, we will see if it helps. The gabapentin is ok, and I am only at a small dose, but something tells me that the lamictal would be better "if tolerated" for excitotoxicity symptoms. The last thing I want to do is use benzo's long term.

    Oh and yeah, I would not push through with meditation if it causes increased depression and anxiety. That is highly dangerous I have found. Best to find something that helps your body so it can handle meditation first.
  4. ramakentesh

    ramakentesh Senior Member

    Sadly most of us do.

    But there are a variety of different neurotransmitters that could be at play - not just glut/gaba/nmda pathyways - although they appear the most obvious.
  5. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

    Hey xrayspex. I've experimented with Evening Primrose Oil (EPO) several times in various states of health. A few years ago it's effect on my mood was negligible and I could take it for months. However as I've grown weaker I've become more sensitive to the effects of all sorts of therapies. Interventions expected to improve mood or cellular energy now have a very strong effect as a result of my worsening excitotoxicity. So EPO, aside from the ET, makes me feel somewhat euphoric and at peace with the world. The down side, when I have to stop taking it after a few days, is the exact opposite.

    I can't really guess at what your reaction to fish oil might be about, but EPO certainly isn't a substitute, as one is an omega 6 and the other a 3. If you're looking to supplement omega 3's and have a problem with fish oil you might want to try flax or one of the other alternatives. I also think it's also a good idea to balance the fatty acids as much as possible.
  6. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

    PokerPlayer: Did you ever end up giving Lamictal a go?

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page