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Evrensel: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation and Its Usage in Neuropsychiatric Disorders

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by mango, Aug 5, 2016.

  1. mango

    mango Senior Member

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    Fecal Microbiota Transplantation and Its Usage in Neuropsychiatric Disorders

    Evrensel A1, Ceylan ME1.

    Author information
    1Department of Psychiatry, Uskudar University, Istanbul, Turkey.

    Clin Psychopharmacol Neurosci. 2016 Aug 31;14(3):231-7. doi: 10.9758/cpn.2016.14.3.231.

    Abstract
    Fecal microbiota transplantation has a 1700-year history. This forgotten treatment method has been put into use again during the last 50 years. The interest in microbiota-gut-brain axis and fecal microbiota transplantation is rapidly increasing.

    New evidence is obtained in the etiopathogenesis of neuropsychiatric disorders. There is a large number of experimental and clinical researches in the field of gut-brain axis.

    There is limited information on fecal microbiota transplantation. Despite this, initial results are promising. It is commonly used in the treatment of gastrointestinal diseases such as Clostridium difficile infection, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis. It is also experimentally used in the treatment of metabolic and autoimmune diseases.

    There are case reports that it is effective in the treatment of autism, Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, chronic fatigue syndrome and irritable bowel syndrome.

    Its implementation is easy, and it is a cheap and reliable treatment method. However, the long-term risks are unknown. Additionally, standard application protocols have not yet been established. There are a lot of questions to be answered.

    A university in Turkey has got official permission this year, and started to apply fecal microbiota transplantation.

    In this review, neuropsychiatric areas of use of fecal microbiota transplantation have been discussed in the light of the current information.

    Keywords: Fecal microbiota transplantation; Gut-brain axis; Immune system; Neurology; Psychiatry

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27489376
     
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  2. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    It's commonly known that depression and anxiety often goes along with gut symptoms. Thanks to no small part due to Freud, it was assumed that the gut symptoms are caused by mental distress.

    I think there's a good chance psychoabble got the direction of causality wrong as usual.
     
  3. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    Just like ulcers.
     
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  4. frog_in_the_fog

    frog_in_the_fog Test Subject

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    I think it is a package deal, you don't get one without the other. And yes, it works in both directions. Simply stated, stress causes illness and illness causes stress. So by implanting someone else's harmony into your own body, that brings harmony to you? Hmm....
     
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  5. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Has there ever been an experiment in a controlled laboratory setting where volunteers developed gut inflammation, mild abdominal pain, food intollerances, etc. by being subjected to mental stress?

    If not, why should one believe in baseless speculation?

    If yes, has it been subsequently confimed that in the real world, people with the ongoing symptoms of this type are experiencing these as consequence of ongoing mental stress?
     
  6. frog_in_the_fog

    frog_in_the_fog Test Subject

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    @A.B. fair point. Everyone has a different story, but there are common themes. For some it is easy to figure out, maybe they got their gut problems in Asia, others by visiting a local eatery, for a few a stay at a hospital. So many vectors for these types of illnesses. For me stress is certainly a factor, but no, I can't say it is for all afflicted. Whether the cause is bacterial, viral, or genetic, we are all searching for answers, and this forum is a great place to learn and share.
     
  7. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    What's being implanted is a collection of bacteria which stimulate host immune cells in the gut, which produce neurotransmitters, enzymes which digest dietary components that the host cannot cope with, enzymes that boost the detox capacity of the host liver, SCFAs which the host uses is several different ways, vitamins - to name just a few.

    Studies transplanting the gut microbiota from anxious and non-anxious people into germ free mice show that anxiety and related behavioural changes are transferable - ie there is a causal relationship between the gut bacteria and anxiety. The anxiety can be reversed by allowing the anxious mice to consume the faeces of mice without anxiety.

    The transfer doesn't go the other way. In other words the anxious mice are missing something that the non-anxious mice have. Once the mice have this, it makes them resilient to anxiety.
     
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  8. frog_in_the_fog

    frog_in_the_fog Test Subject

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    This makes sense since the gut is considered a second brain of sorts, creating as much as 90% of serotonin in the body. So an unhappy gut leads to an unhappy brain.

    https://www.caltech.edu/news/microbes-help-produce-serotonin-gut-46495
     
  9. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

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    Hate to be a debbie downer, but this blurb makes me suspicious. "Neuropsychiatric" is a danger word for a start - its another way of saying "psychiatric", but gives the impression you know the neural basis of the symptoms. Not true for most of the conditions listed here.

    And look at the list of conditions, is as long as your arm:
    autism, Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, chronic fatigue syndrome and irritable bowel syndrome.

    Seems this treatment can fix almost anything, irrespective of cause.

    And why are psychiatric symptoms being singled out anyway? What is special about them? Why should any treatment alter them selectively and not the other symptoms of the illness? I'd say only some treatment that doesn't really work, but acts as a placebo.

    I don't even need to go into the dodgy journal this was is (accept-anyone-who-pays).
     
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  10. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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    Parkinson's disease is cased by atrophy of the substantia nigra, a part of the brain. Multiple sclerosis is caused by degeneration of myelin (nerve sheathing) in the central nervous system. Depression is a symptom of both, but it seems so unlikely that fecal transplants would have much effect on the progress of these diseases.
     
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  11. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    i think neurotoxins could leak into the brain from damaged gut lining....severe gut issues could compromise immunity and reactivate infections....who knows...there could be a number of ways the gut could play a role in these diseases, i think. maybe in some cases, fecal transplanation could help?
     
  12. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    there have been rare cases of autoimmunity starting after a fecal transplant.

    my specialist feels they are not safe for people with compromised immune systems
     
  13. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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    There are conditions such as amnesiac shellfish poisoning, but that doesn't mean fecal transplantation is going to fix your brain.

    I don't want to sound too negative--I'm volunteering in a microbiome study, after all--but because something sounds plausible doesn't mean that it works.
     
  14. frog_in_the_fog

    frog_in_the_fog Test Subject

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    What works for some does not work for all. We are not looking at a cure all here, but this microbiome research could end up doing a lot of good. I would try as many treatments as possible to get better, but because there is usually some risk, I consider the possibility I could get worse. We learn to tread carefully because going up hill is a lot harder than going down. But you can't become an expert climber without falling down, so we take risks in the hope we will find something that makes us better. I look forward to reading the results of studies around microbiome research.
     
  15. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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  16. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

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    Sure, go for it, @frog_in_the_fog. But others might want a little open discussion before deciding to give over their treatment dollar. After all, there are a lots of promises being made out there, and I doubt all those treatments work.
     
  17. frog_in_the_fog

    frog_in_the_fog Test Subject

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    @kangaSue I had no idea the research went so far back.

    Neuropathologist Armando Ferraro and clinical psychiatrist Joseph E. Kilman of the New York Psychiatric Institute wrote the following in Psychiatric Quarterly journal 1933:

    "It is far from our mind to conceive that all mental conditions have the same etiological factor, but we feel justified in recognizing the existence of cases of mental disorders which have as a basic etiological factor a toxic condition arising in the gastrointestinal tract"
     
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  18. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    You don't get much worse gut lining damage than having Crohn's or Ulcerative Colitis but many in that cohort are getting full remission from FMT without devoloping neuro problems so the argument from specialist that FMT is not safe for people with compromised immune systems isn't supported by the evidence.

    Obviously, you need a healthy donor but the fact that follow up colonoscopy in this cohort getting remission shows completely healed bowel lining demonstrates that FMT actually heals a potential leaky gut.
     
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  19. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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    It would depend on how your immune system is compromised. There are hundreds of autoimmune conditions and immunodeficiencies.
     
  20. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    It's just another biologic, do all those do what they promise without damaging some along the way? At least you can do this for less than $50 if you can stomach the d.i.y. route.
     
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