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Every single time I eat in the morning symptoms get worse

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by trickthefox, Mar 23, 2016.

  1. trickthefox

    trickthefox Senior Member

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    I have worked out that after any sort of meal - it doesnt matter what kind of meal - it can be absolutley anything - my brain fog and M.E. and fatigue will get worse. Every morning i generally wake up with a better clarity of mind - low energy - but feeling okay, if i starve myself this feeling will last until the moment i eat. Ive tested myself for SIBO which i dont have. I do have leaky gut but ive tried everything I can to tackle it and it wont go

    Does anyone have any ideas? or has anyone experienced the same thing and managed to solve it? Ive been pulsing ABX and probiotics with KDM but its not helping
     
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  2. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Are there foods that make your symptoms worse than other foods? Or are all foods equally bad?

    Have you tried no carbs?

    @trickthefox
     
  3. ryan31337

    ryan31337 Senior Member

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    The double-whammy of breakfast + a hot shower turns me into a foggy vegetable every morning, despite feeling OK beforehand. Large hot, carby meals throughout the day have a similar effect. For me the cause appears to be dehydration, blood distribution & POTS - is that something you've addressed?
     
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  4. trickthefox

    trickthefox Senior Member

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    all foods are equally bad but i can fill my stomach up with water no problem, yep ive tried no carb, high carb, all protein, all fat, fasting, gaps diet, all the leaky gut supplements, candida protocalls, nothing!
     
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  5. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    POTS.. People with POTS can feel okay when they wake up due to being laying so blood more easily getting to their brains due to laying .. but one is more prone to getting POTS in morning due to the overnight dehydration and when one eats, it drops the blood volume going to the head as more blood then going to stomach so hence someone could have issues after eating in the mornings.

    For POTS symptoms to occur for some it can make more then one POTS trigger eg eating and going overnight without fluids coming together. (In my own case eating with being warmish can trigger a POTS symptom flare).

    To avoid.. try drinking more during the night so your blood volume isnt falling so much during night It may be a good idea to have some tilt table testing done and then go onto POTS meds if this shows up as being the case,
     
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  6. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    @trickthefox - Does it happen even if you just eat a tiny amount of food? With orthostatic intolerance, digestion can exacerbate symptoms due to diverting blood toward the GI tract to aid in absorption. Some people find that it helps a lot to eat small amounts throughout the day, and to avoid normal-sized meals.
     
  7. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    MCAS reaction? youd be surprised how bad the brain fog can be with this. Its probabaly not, but just a suggestion.
     
  8. Bead Dog

    Bead Dog

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    I wonder if you may have type of "silent" gastritis. The type that is more autoimmune. I read that it does not always cause typical gastritis problems, especially if it just began. Maybe get an endoscope to see if anything is going on in the stomach?
     
  9. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

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    I get this too.

    Lately I've managed to be able to eat a banana every couple of hours. Strange, since this used to crash me.
     
  10. digital dog

    digital dog Senior Member

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    I read somewhere about a man who could literally only eat two different things (I think it was rice and lamb). He had desperate reactions to all other food but decided to introduce things and weather the storm of crap to see if he would start tolerating them. He had nothing to lose (he was dying basically).

    He found that after a few months of hell he could start tolerating many more food types.

    This is probably no help whatsoever considering I can't remember where I read this (maybe something to do with DNR) and probably not relevant to your situation.

    Another suggestion is enzyme potentiated desensitisation. Have you looked into this? The theory behind it made sense to me. I had this done and have details if you are interested.

    I'm so sorry you are going through this.
     
  11. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    Years ago I noticed virtually all my symptoms were worse after meals, and this led me to experiment with fasting. As a result I learned that not eating for about three days would relieve most of my troubles: electrical hypersensitivity, brain fog, fasciculations, nasal congestion, anxiety, reddened complexion. etc. Unfortunately within 5 minutes of eating, regardless what or how much, all my symptoms would return.

    I puzzled over this for years, convinced the main problem had to be in the gut. Yet it was so odd that the triggering should occur with chewing and swallowing, before the food could even reach the small intestine. When I asked my integrative MD at the time about it, he suggested it might be due to some sort of dysautonomia. I now believe he was partly right.

    Apparently other people have noticed the phenomenon. Cort asked Dr Logan the following question in a 2009 interview:
    Eventually I lost the ability to control symptoms with fasting, however before this happened I had a couple experiences that provided a bit more information. One was that GI/liver flushes expedited my symptom washout; instead of it taking three days to become asymptomatic it only took 24 hours if I'd done a flush. The second was I found myself asymptomatic the day after a 24 hour flu. While sick I ate nothing, drank only water, and vomited a whole lot. Then to my surprise I awoke the next morning to the sounds of birds chirping, feeling perfectly healthy. I’d always put off eating as long as I could whenever I got into this state because I knew I’d revert back to my sick, old self as soon as I did.

    It’s worth noting the liver flush involved consuming epsom salts, olive oil, and grapefruit juice, and that this didn’t trigger inflammation. It was just the reaction to chewing and swallowing food that would do me in.

    I wonder if these purges weren't expelling toxins in the bile that would normally be recirculated (like what Shoemaker describes) and this helped my system settle down, thereby speeding up the symptom washout. Perhaps it gave my antioxidant/anti-inflammatory systems a chance to catch up. However there has to be some immune/autonomic irritant that persists under the surface in order for things to then kick off again from just swallowing food. I suspect the autonomic shift that eating triggers accelerates an inflammatory process and then presto, you’ve symptoms.

    I’ve also observed therapies that relieve my oxidative stress, or those that stimulate the parasympathetic system can calm this eating reaction.

    I've no doubt all my reactivity leads to a good deal of oxidative stress. And the oxidative stress leads to more reactivity. It has always seemed to me that my system is just really irritated by a number of stressors which perpetuate the cycle. What I’m quite sure of now is that eating is not the problem. And I don’t believe a leaky gut is responsible either, at least not solely.

    So what I’ve learned over the last few years has shed some light on the whole thing for me:

    My electrical hypersensitivity turned out to be caused by reaction to ambient toxins (presumably mold). In a pristine environment I had absolutely no EHS. Practicing moderate avoidance has rendered my EHS negligible and it has also caused me to regain the ability to tolerate medications. And my food sensitivities lessened in intensity. It's interesting how all this stuff fits together. So this was a symptom that could be turned off with fasting, yet the real problem is the inflammatory response to mycotoxins.

    On another front my brain fog, anxiety, fasciculations, and complexion problems are actually related to my babesia infection, which seems to be my worst irritant. All these symptoms clear when the bug’s activity is suppressed. Again these symptoms I know to be connected to babesia were the same I could turn off with fasting. Also my EMF sensitivity was better when treating babesia. And even the reaction to eating was somewhat reduced.

    I’m probably confusing the hell out of you with all this, but I don’t know another way to convey my reasoning without relating it to my experience. Suffice it to say all the symptoms have their particular stressors that don't immediately relate to eating. Moreover there is a cumulative inflammatory effect whereby inflammation from one source could somewhat worsen inflammation and symptoms from another. For me it was a matter of identifying and eliminating the stressors, which is still a work in progress.

    I’m convinced the exacerbation of symptoms from eating is nothing more than an incredibly alluring distraction from the real issues.

    Have you tried water fasts? Perhaps a liver flush would be an interesting experiment.
     
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  12. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

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    @Dufresne TLDR, but the first paragraph reminds me of bipolar patients being cured by 12 hours daylight/12 hours total darkness for some reason. I don't know why, but my dopamine system flagged it up.
     
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  13. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    I get carried away sometimes. o_O
     
  14. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

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    Read it now. So what IS the eating link then? It must be something...
     
  15. trickthefox

    trickthefox Senior Member

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    it even happens with small salad meals. The strange thing is when i eat my last meal of the day, it is so much easier to cope with and does not hit me half as hard. I noticed the same with fasting especially a 3 day fast. Felt a new sense of calm and wellness, then the second i eat symptoms come right back. I have diagnosed lyme so I wander if its something to do with the lyme recognising food is being introduced to the system, so they mobalise causing symptoms
     
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  16. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    I've come out of my fasts with small amounts of rice, lettuce, etc. Doesn't matter, if I ate anything all symptoms would return.

    As I stated above most of my symptoms can clearly be attributed to specific stressors. For example mycotoxin exposure leads to electrical hypersensitivity. Yet I could also turn this off and on with eating. So in my case it's not borrelia that's directly responsible. I suspect borrelia is key in my PEM, but that's another issue.

    My reaction to eating diminished when I used depressants like alcohol, opioids, or GHB. Anything that calms the nervous system.

    It's also improved with a lower acid diet and wormwood. An acid/oxidized terrain leads to an agitated nervous state and, I think, factors into the eating sensitivity amongst other things. You eat and your autonomic system does a little freak-out and this triggers inflammation. Vagus nerve? Perhaps.

    In my case I know it's mainly due to a trick babesia plays. The bug releases an irritant that oxidizes the system, screwing up redox, and thereby crippling cellular immunity. It survives and I'm made ill. It's quite possible that all sorts of cellular infections can do this. That's what Paul Cheney believes.

    You might want to try a low acid forming diet (low sugar/carbs and no redmeat) and try taking wormwood. These are interventions that have been really helpfull for me, particularly when I could still control inflammation by fasting.
     
    Wayne likes this.
  17. digital dog

    digital dog Senior Member

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    Could you not eat throughout the night? Do you frequently wake in the night? Perhaps you could set an alarm (horrific I know) to eat a little every two hours then the first meal may not be so problematic.

    God what a dreadful situation but keep the faith as a lot of people are on death's door because of intolerances and then perk up through various means.
     
    Never Give Up likes this.
  18. digital dog

    digital dog Senior Member

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    I know that we cannot compare ourselves to 'normal' people but healthy people state that fasting makes them feel better too. I suppose we just have a exaggerated response.
     
  19. digital dog

    digital dog Senior Member

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    Was there a trigger for this downturn? Did you do something or eat something that started the severe food intolerances?

    Could you isolate the cause? Perhaps if you could do that, you could treat it? I'm sure you've thought of everything though.
     
  20. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member

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    I also have felt lousy after meals and tried numerous diets and eliminations of possible food-intolerances. For years I ended up fasting during the day and have the first meal in the evening, in order to get to be as active as possible during the day.

    I have begun to wonder if it could simply have something to do about digesting in itself - and not necessarily food intolerances or wrong diet regimes. With lots of blood flowing towards the gut while the body is digesting, maybe that mechanism itself is enough to make an ME-patient feel lousy after eating - even after a light meal?

    I decided to use that theory as an excuse to take a little break from all the diets :whistle:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2016

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