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Euthanasia

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by digital dog, Jun 17, 2016.

  1. digital dog

    digital dog Senior Member

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    Is this available to ME sufferers? I know that you have to prove serious illness. Has anyone looked into this?
    I'm extremely sorry for the morbidity of this question but I am genuinely interested.
    I know of a lady in the UK who tried to kill herself through many different means (she bought an expensive canister containing nitrogen from that Australian doctor) but it didn't work and she had no other option but to jump off a bridge. She was absolutely devastated to have to end her life in such a hideous way so I wonder if euthanasia just isn't possible for ME sufferers.
     
  2. shannah

    shannah Senior Member

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    This is a horrendous illness and, although I understand, I am so sorry that you would consider this as an option @digital dog

    What can we do as a community to help you?
     
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  3. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    yes there is one recognised euthanasia place which will support someone with ME/CFS finishing themselves off and help them do so. Someone with this illness ended there life there only 1-2 years ago. I forget now where it is (it may of been one in Sweden???? I think you need family consent throu for this.. counts me out of going there, my family would never support this).

    they do take people from other countries, so people were traveling from all over the world to go there.
     
  4. mango

    mango Senior Member

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    No, not Sweden.
     
  5. undiagnosed

    undiagnosed Senior Member

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    Maybe you're thinking of Dignitas which is located in Switzerland.
     
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  6. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    Canada is in the process of legalizing euthanasia and you will have to be terminally ill and be mentally competent at the time of euthanasia, in order to be considered for it. If you have a progressive illness that will leave you unable to make decisions for yourself at the end of life, you won't be permitted to be euthanized even if you had signed a document when you were fully competent. As you can tell they are trying to make it almost impossible for most people to be able to follow through with it and some hospitals are already saying they will having nothing to do with it. Switzerland, Oregon State, and I think the Netherlands have legalized euthanasia but I don't know what the rules are for any of them or whether they would consider someone who isn't terminal.
     
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  7. undiagnosed

    undiagnosed Senior Member

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    My backup plan has been nitrogen hypoxia. From what I've read it's generally successful. Do you have more information about the incident?

    Also, just to be clear I'm not advocating suicide. However, I believe everyone has a right to make that decision when their quality of life has deteriorated beyond what they consider acceptable. I hope I nor anyone else here ever reaches that point but we should be able to choose to go with some dignity.
     
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  8. mango

    mango Senior Member

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  9. zoe.a.m.

    zoe.a.m. Senior Member

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    Is there a thread specifically for suicide here?
     
  10. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    There have been many threads where suicide has been discussed.
     
  11. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    I think it's Belgium that has the most liberal euthanasia laws.

    Nembutol was being promoted by a euthanasia group in Australia as the drug of choice for a rapid end to suffering. There was even a group here that got together to make their own otherwise you had to travel to Mexico (and maybe Indonesia too, not sure) where you could buy it over the counter in some places that sell vet products as it's used as an animal anaesthetic.
     
  12. digital dog

    digital dog Senior Member

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    You can't buy nembutal. even abroad it is difficult now. A man in Australia was selling canisters of nitrogen (I think Im totally brain dead at mo) but this person I knew tried it and it didn't work for her.
    So, Belgium and Holland seem to be the best options.
     
  13. Rvanson

    Rvanson Senior Member

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    There are many easy, painless, non-bloody ways to kill yourself, that dont involve guns, knifes, hanging or car crashes. You can find them if you like, but I cannot in good conscience post any of them here. I do believe Oregon in the US allows assisted suicides, but I doubt they would do so in your case. I think its only allowed if you are in hospice and are going to die anyhow.
     
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  14. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Ah bugger, there goes plan A. I'll have to befriend a vet.
     
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  15. MikeJackmin

    MikeJackmin Senior Member

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    This is a tricky topic, and a valid one.

    I like to make a distinction between euthanasia and suicide, thinking of them as opposite ends of a spectrum. The furthest end of the euthanasia spectrum is exemplified by person in full command of their faculties and in love with life, untroubled by physical discomfort, financial pressure, or depression, fully supported by a loving and wise family, making an unquestionably logical choice in the face of some unstoppable medical disaster. The end of the suicide spectrum is represented a person who is driven by discomfort, haunted by anxieties that seem out of control, depressed, hopeless, and alone.

    The correct way to address a genuine need for euthanasia is to provide a dignified and comfortable death. The correct way to address the suicidal impulse is to provide support - fixing what can be fixed, and restoring the emotional strength necessary to gracefully accept what's left.

    In real life everybody is somewhere in the middle. It can be very hard to distinguish a recoverable situation from an unrecoverable one, especially when one is alone. Depression, almost by definition, is a disease characterized by inappropriate and compelling hopelessness, and anyone who's life has grown within sight of the point where euthanasia seems a sensible option, is almost always a person who is also feeling powerless and afraid.

    That said, I think there is a healthy and sensible role for euthanasia for folks like us. Having the means to end our lives in some acceptable way means freedom for the very real fear of being trapped by our illness and our circumstances. The flip side of this is that it also makes it easier for a bout of depression and fear to become fatal. It's a tradeoff, and it has to be a tradeoff that each of us decides for ourselves.

    The very bottom line for most of us, regardless of our circumstances, is that we can simply choose not to eat or drink. Here in the US, advanced directive can be written to assure this (http://liv-will1.uslivingwillregistry.com/individuals.html). It's hardly an ideal method of course, but it is not so bad, and it can be comforting to know that this is the worst-case scenario. (I do not know for sure how this would play out in other countries, and how much influence other people - family, or health care staff - would have).

    Other methods are available as well, but each carries some risk. It's the sort of thing that's hard to fully test in advance. Drugs can expire, or not be quite as potent as claimed; they might be absorbed too slowly or vomited up. Nitrogen hypoxia requires the technical knowledge to provide a steady, correct flow, over the correct time, and any hypoxic method requires that no fresh air leaks into the confined space if the unconscious body thrashes around. Almost any method might require the ability to get out of bed, or to depend upon a helper. It gets complicated and it can be hard to find reliable help. Mitigating and accepting these risks is, once again, an individual decision.

    Detailed discussion of methods invites moral, and possibly legal, hazards. This leaves us with a difficult problem and a minimum of clear answers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016
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  16. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    imo: Now that it seems we're starting to make some progress with research, and crack apart a lot of the harmful quackery that has surrounded ME for so long, now would be a bad time for anyone with ME to decide to end their life. Better to put one's energy into highlighting the problems with PACE than investigating euthanasia options.

    If I'd realised what a dire state we were in fifteen years ago, I'd have definitely dived off a bridge though!
     
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  17. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Don't do it @digital dog

    I believe that it is common to go through a severe episode of depression while the body is going through some healing like when you come off meds and that it will get better. It happened to me on the autoimmune paleo protocol a few weeks ago.
     
  18. digital dog

    digital dog Senior Member

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    I know this sounds ridiculous in the light of my recent posts but I'm not particularly depressed. I am just worn out and tired of the inevitable. I am, perhaps, looking at things more rationally than before. You are right though Brenda, I am definitely not normal since coming off the meds. I am hugely improved both mentally and physically but there are many months or years to go until my brain is fully healed.
    I am not ready to commit suicide although I know exactly how I would do it if euthanasia was not available. I would just very much like there to be a way out when I decide that I have had enough.
     
  19. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    I am hugely improved mentally ( and physically) but it has made my situation seem worse because l am thinking clearer. I am seeing what l am missing in life which did not matter as much before when l was just surviving. I do get it about feeling weary. The way l am coping is by saying to myself don't think about anything at the moment and just keep on doing what l am doing.

    Last year at my worst l decided that l would go to Mexico for OTC benzos and then sit and eat pizza and ice cream first! When l found the right diet which was to totally come off grains dairy and sugar, the improvements were miraculous. Good luck!
     
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  20. digital dog

    digital dog Senior Member

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    Brenda, my daughter is ten and a half. Every second of her life has been agony. Every minute spent feeding, playing, educating etc her has been through gritted teeth. I can't say that there is one thing I did with her in a decade that was enjoyable as I felt so dreadfully incapable and ill. I look at the photos we took and I know exactly how I felt in all of them...absolutely, soul destroyingly, heart breakingly DREADFUL!
    Over the last few months I have had the odd hour, and even the odd day where I have felt much improved and then I can see how much I have missed. Being able to play with my daughter not feeling like death has been utterly utterly beautiful. I can't believe how easy and enjoyable motherhood is with health.
    I went on one bike ride with my daughter in ten years. In the last two months I have been on eight!!!!!!!!
    I am so scared this bug has set me back to that HELL.
    When I have had some good days and I speak to someone I think they must think I am on drugs because they ask me how my day was and I say:
    'I have been to heaven today. I am in heaven. The world is so beautiful and intoxicating and I never ever want this day to end.'
    This is just a normal day doing normal things but to people with a long term chronic illness life is simply HEAVEN when we are even moderately well or sick but improved.

    I am so desperately sorry for all of you who have not had a second of health. I absolutely know what all of you would give to taste relatively good health.

    Life is not fair and there is no justice in this world.
     

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