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ERV's latest blog on the FDA paper. One step too far?

Discussion in 'Action Alerts and Advocacy' started by Sunshine, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. Sunshine

    Sunshine Senior Member

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    CAN WE HAVE THIS PERSON'S BLOG PAGE TAKEN DOWN BY THE ISP FOR PURPOSEFUL ANTAGONISM TOWARDS A DISABLED MINORITY? THE ISP MUST HAVE RULES ON HOSTING BLOGS

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    XMRV and chronic fatigue syndrome: Scientific Blue Balls
    Category: XMRV
    Posted on: August 23, 2010 8:40 PM, by ERV


    http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2010/08/xmrv_and_chronic_fatigue_syndr_16.php#more

    So, a while back, there was HUUUUUGE DRAMA. BIG HUBUB. Because a study that CONFIRMED the initial findings regarding XMRV and CFS was being HELD UP by TEH GOVERNMENT! Conspiracy, conspiracy, yada yada yada.

    Apparently, this was that paper:

    Detection of MLV-related virus gene sequences in blood of patients with chronic fatigue syndrome and healthy blood donors. I can honestly say I was really excited for this paper to come out. I wanted to see 1) what this group did to replicate those findings that no other lab could do, and 2) see the same results come from samples that had never seen Judy Mikovits laboratory.

    Yeah.

    Here is a graphic representation of this paper:


    [​IMG]



    I have, like, the worst case of scientific blue balls ever. Like, ever.


    *rubs temples*

    Okay.

    In the original paper, they found XMRV proviruses in the PBMC of 68 of 101 from patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, 8 of 218 healthy controls.

    In this paper, they found sequences in 32 of 37 (!!!) Chronic Fatigue patients, and 3 of 44 healthy controls.

    Sequences.

    Gag sequences.

    From endogenous mouse retroviruses.

    Not XMRV.

    *blink*

    *blink*

    Noooooot XMRV...

    Im granting them, that conclusion, which I honestly dont necessarily believe. PNAS paper, using standard PCR to ID 'positives' and 'negatives', with insane numbers of bands as a result of non-specific primer binding. Insane numbers. As if this is 1990 and we dont know what 'Real Time PCR' and 'Taqman Probes' are. Im going to ignore that and grant the premise they really have IDed viral sequences.

    And they arent XMRV. They dont cluster anywhere near XMRV on a phylogenetic tree.

    Theyre something else entirely.

    Okay, well, logically it could be contamination from mouse DNA. So they checked for that... by looking for mouse mitochondrial DNA.

    *blink*

    I understand why they did it-- mitochondrial DNA is easier to find than genomic DNA, because there are more mitochondria in a cell than genome. But you kinda need to look for mouse genomic DNA contamination when one of your phyologenetic trees has your 'viral sequences' so closely related to mouse ERVs on four different chromosomes that it doesnt even form a proper branch. Cause ERVs are in genomes. Not mitochondrial DNA.

    *blink*

    But wait, it gets better.

    32/37 (86.5%) of the CFS patients were 'something weird' positive when they looked at PBMC. This group actually looked for 'something weird' as viral RNA. Cell-free virus in patient plasma. 42% were positive. Now, Im not bitching about the differences in percentage-- when you freeze virus, even high-titer HIV-1, you lose some of it. What Im amazed by, is this is the first time anyone has isolated cell-free virus in the bloodstream of CFS patients... and this finding is just talked over in one awkwardly worded paragraph.

    In 42% of samples, we also detected and sequence-confirmed the presence of MLV-related viral RNA in the frozen plasma samples of these CFS patients, using an RT-PCR assay (Fig. 1C). With one exception, all of the patients who tested positive for viral RNA gag gene sequences in the plasma samples also tested positive in the DNA prepared from PBMCs and/or whole blood. On the other hand, only about half of the patients with MLV-related virus gag gene sequences detected in PBMC DNA also had viral gag RNA sequences detected in the plasma. 1C is the only figure that doesnt look like shit. Its the first time anyone has identified cell-free virus in CFS patients. And thats what it gets.


    *blink*

    Im ignoring the fact that in figure 1C, all the CFS patients are lined up in a row, and the word 'blinded' is never used in this paper or the supplemental. That figure still looks nice.

    And thats it.

    Thats the whole paper.

    And yet we get this:

    "'I think it settles the issue of whether the initial report was real or not,' said K. Kimberly McCleary, president of the CFIDS Association of America, the leading organization for people with chronic fatigue syndrome."

    Nooooo... not exactly. Not at all, actually. This paper very superficially 'supports' the WPI, in that they found something weird in CFS patients blood (and didnt investigate it beyond standard PCR). But they didnt find XMRV. They found mouse ERVs. Which makes almost as much sense as Darth Vader using a Brita water filter to fill a plastic jug with ocean water.


    Almost.
  2. LaurelW

    LaurelW Senior Member

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    And she thinks she knows more than the respected Drs. Alter and Lo? Isn't she a medical student??????
    :tongue:
  3. urbantravels

    urbantravels disjecta membra

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    Is it really worth any scrap of our precious, limited energies to pay attention to such things?

    There will be so many ignorant comments like that. Unless they come out of the mouth of someone with real influence or importance, I suggest ignoring them as the most productive course of action.
  4. muffin

    muffin Senior Member

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    Ignore this child. She is just stupid and nasty. Don't bother going to her site, don't bother emailing or commenting on her trash. This little nothing knows nothing. When she grows up and gets real degrees and enters the real world, then this idiot child may speak. Until that time, she may not speak. Ignore this child.
  5. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    This is what she wants...

    Sunshine -- I totally understand your frustration, but posting ERV's idiotic comments here IS EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTS. This is basically free advertising for her blog, and she's LOVING it!

    SHE WANTS TO GET A REACTION FROM US.

    SHE WANTS TO BE THE CENTER OF ATTENTION.

    SHE THRIVES ON IT.

    So the best thing to do...is to ignore her. That will drive her nuts.

    And perhaps, consider maybe asking the moderators to delete this thread.

    d.


    p.s. Please don't take my 'all caps' as "screaming"...it's not meant that way, just meant to emphasize the points...
  6. dipic

    dipic Senior Member

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    There is this freedom of speech thing...

    Seriously though, just ignore her. She's an ant. Not worth the time or precious energy paying attention to. (I'm sorry; that was insulting to ants. They're actually very fascinating little creatures.)

    This threads existence, in all honesty (and with no disrespect to the OP) only worsens the problem. As dannybex said, she thrives on attention (as all ignorant trolls and bullies do.)
  7. Riley

    Riley

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    Ughhh. Haven't we beaten the dead horse that is ERV enough? She's the Rush Limbaugh/Keith Olberman of science blogs. Let her spew her impotent vituperation into the void of cyberspace all she wants.
  8. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    Just ignore her. And every petty, jumped up, vicious little nobody like her. Don't even visit her blog, it will just give her more hits and a higher blog ranking. Save your energy for the important battles.
  9. Stone

    Stone Senior Member

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    The more she talks the more damage she's doing to her future 'career'. With any luck, the things she says will be remembered when the dust settles on this retrovirus issue, when these days will be referred to in the future as "the early days of XMRV (or whatever)". She won't be able to get a decent job anywhere because the whole world will know she (was) one of those 'flat-earthers'
  10. Mya Symons

    Mya Symons Mya Symons

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    Why does this person seem so angry at people with CFS? Did we do something to offend her? Did she used to work for the CDC and recently lost her job? Who is she and why is she getting herself involved?
  11. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    She found that her ugliness about ME/CFS gets her a lot of hits. The nastier she is, the more PWCs dash over to her site to try to set her straight. She's a mean-spirited little girl who gets kicks boosting her "ratings" at the expense of seriously ill people. Sad, but simple. As everyone else said, we just need to ignore her tantrums.
  12. Mya Symons

    Mya Symons Mya Symons

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    Wow, she'll make the perfect doctor.
  13. acer2000

    acer2000 Senior Member

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    Jeez. just ignore this stuff. Its not even worth responding to. The best thing would be if she added a new post to her blog and nobody commented. *crickets* Anyways... move along.
  14. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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    Ignore her. Its easy to do.


    She is a mouthy self-opinionated STUDENT.

    I can guarantee that, with an attitude like hers, her future career will be going nowhere.

    With experience of real life she may just find that it does pay to care about people rather than just viruses.
  15. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

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    Can we please not place links to the ERV blog on this forum so she doesn't see the trackbacks!
  16. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    I typed a post but now i think i rather say nothing. Gool luck, ERV, it's better for you and us if you find the necessary size of character soon to start talking things that make some sense.
    You are criticizing people that should be your idols.

    Unfortunately probably, as in HIV and everywhere, there will always be some people who stick to wierd theories. But they won't be relevant in any way. Free speech in the USA goes very far, further than what we are used to in Europe, so what the h...
    It was the USA once again, who got things done, so thanks USA.
  17. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    well...why didnt the alter paper find XMRV? does she have a point?
  18. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    I had wondered how 'poor little ERV' would take this. Answer: she doesn't smell the coffee because she is still asleep.

    She hasn't realized that this blog will come back to haunt her. She has blighted her potential career.
  19. cfssufferer

    cfssufferer

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    Does anyone know ERVs real name? She may be less likely to post rude, attacking and controversial statements if they are associated with her real name as opposed to a pseudonym.

    On her contact page she writes:

    These dont seem like the words of a kind person who cares about the welfare of others. Some people would say that the purpose of medical scientists and researchers is to help people. The pain, suffering and hurtfulness that result from some of ERVs comments are likely to outweigh any benefits she brings to mankind as a result of her future scientific work.
  20. cfssufferer

    cfssufferer

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    I just searched the forums and her name is Abbie Smith. Surely some of her comments would jeopardise her future employment opportunities. If she was applying for a job and the company searched for her name and all of these rude and unscientific comments came up that corresponded to her name, she would not get the job. Also IF she does publish scientific papers in the future, her comments will tarnish her reputation as a researcher.

    Maybe it would be a good idea to collect some of the quotes she has made and put in a few keywords such as 'ERV' and 'University of Oklahoma' that would come up in Google searches and associate them with her name. When people search her name, these comments would come up. We could add to the list as she continues to make offensive and unscientific comments. As a consequence, she may be more thoughtful about what she says. Maybe Im being too optimistic about her reaction...

    On the flip side maybe ignoring her like many other have suggested would be a better idea.

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