Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by SOC, Apr 23, 2012.
mine was just a personal opinion, not an expert opinion, and so I could well be wrong.
Well, it's too early to report any benefits, but I experienced unmistakable start-up reactions within a couple hours of my first dose of only one pill. I immediately went into an strong flu-like state, with muscles aches and low grade fever. I take this as a good sign that my immune system may be kicking back in. We'll see...
Clive, there is a link in my earlier post (#14 in this tread.) It is not a transcript, per se, but a summary. Hope it helps...
I'm now taken Equilibrant for 5 days. I had swollen lymph nodes and slightly sore throat within a couple of days. Today I woke up feeling crummy -- lots of muscle aches, maybe mild depression. Slept for 7 hrs during the day although I couldn't nap most of the previous week. Can't stay below my AT for any upright activity.
Still at 1/2 tablet. Will be at this dose for another 9 days. Glad I didn't start with a large dose.
If the bulk of the effect from Equilibrant comes from the oxymatrine in astragalus. Would you expect to see similar effects if taken in higher doses of astragalus? Or is there something else in the formula that packs quite a punch. I'm hoping I can tolerate astragalus alone at some point as an alternative.
I wish I could remember the source of this info, but my memory is pfft. I'll share it anyway and you can take it for what it is worth. I heard that the sophora is the primary thing that makes Equilibrant uniquely sucessful for enteroviruses and that the other ingredients, which are easily available elsewhere are helpful, but not sufficient. I believe the sophora is used in Eastern medicine, so I'm planning to dig up more about it when I feel up to doing the research.
ETA: From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophora_flavescens which may not be very reliable:
Interesting. So the Sophora is another source of oxymatrine. Be sure to keep this thread updated if you stumble on any more gems.
I don't tolerate Vitamin A and E, otherwise I would have gone for the formula. If Dr Chia put all those herbs in he must have had a good reason for it. Herbs also have synergistic effects.
Originally, I went for Astragalus and Licorice, two of those herbs because they are both effective antivirals. Then I gave up licorice because it (its the estrogenic effects I presume) made me feel mentally "castrated". Recently, I started to suspect it may also have messed up my sodium/potassium balance but I was probably taking too much.
I mentioned Astragalus because it seems to me it's got a lot of studies backing it up.
Which direction did your sodium/potassium balance go out of whack? I am taking licorice and have to supplement potassium quite a bit as it is to keep in in range. It was low though before I started licorice, but I don't want to make it worse.
I had basic blood tests showing high sodium and low potassium a couple of years ago. I stopped using salt and increase my intake of potassium-rich foods and a year later potassium was normal but sodium was still high. I stopped taking it four months ago.
I read it can lower potassium, the effect on sodium I'm not sure. Licorice has some effect on the adrenals so it may have an indirect effect on sodium but I'm speculating since no one has been able to explain why my sodium is that high.
I'm testing again in a few days and then I'll know if licorice was a factor.
Can you remember where you read about oxymatrine lowering potassium? I have had mine monitored over the last 3 months while taking equilibrant and is has dropped significantly enough for me to have to medicate (level is 3.0 now - was 4.0 (normal is 3.5 - 5.0 ))
So I up my doses of equillibrant to 6 a day. I experienced muscle pain, Also bumpy skin in the face. (not sure if this is from equillibrant or if it is a roseola rash, is what it looks like) I have done 6 a day before and did not get this skin reaction so it might be something else.
I am loving this equillibrant, it lowers my HR and get the flue like symptoms away!
I haven't taken this particular supplement. I was referring to licorice in general.
Originally Dr AW suggested I try Oxymatrine. As, I don;t do well with vitamind D and A I did not try it. Instead I tried some of the single constituents like licorice, astragalus, selenium etc. I assume I was taking more than the licorice included in Equilibrant and for a long time.
I have a a couple of books on herbals and natural medicine and they both mention that licorice may increase the excretion of potassium. In my case I think it did.
all the best
Reporting in early.
I'm stopping for the moment.
I've been taking 1 pill a day for 12 days and have been doing much worse the last week or so. This is probably partly caused by PEM, rather than the equilibrant, as I've had a very difficult week with lots of extra physical activity.
- definite increase in muscle cramping/pain soon after starting the equilibrant (this happened before the over exertion) due to the vitamin D content. I've had the same experience with supplemental vitamin D three times this year, but had hoped the small dose in 1 tablet wouldn't cause me issues. The muscle pain also effects my sleep.
- increase in flu like symptoms - exhaustion, low grade fever, body pain. I kind of expected this, since I was warned it would increase my symptoms at first. This wasn't bad until the last week, so the over exertion definitely complicates the cause of this.
- decreased cognitive functioning - could be the immune system activation, could be PEM, not sure, but I have been unable to work.
I've been doing relatively well for the last 4-5 months (semi-functional at work, able to do some cooking/cleaning at home, and able to do some limited and sedentary hobby/fun work) and this is the worst crash I've had in that time. I definitely did more physically at the beginning of last week than I usually do, so this could just be a 'normal' crash and unrelated to the equilibrant. BUT that's not what my gut is telling me. My feeling is that my PEM should have been shorter and less extreme and that there is some other complicating factor which is making it worse. Of course I may just be chickening out before I get to the 'reward' part of the equation, but I just don't think the risk is worth it for me right now
I will probably try again when things at work and home are a little quieter and I can do a better job of eliminating complicating factors. Until then I look forward to reading about how the rest of you fair. I hope wonderfully well!
I haven't found any reference that suggests astragalus is a source of oxymatrine, only sophora has shown up. That doesn't mean it isn't there, could be that I just haven't found it yet.
Holey moley, 7! You're up to 6 already? I'm still on 0.5 tablet, increasing to 1 tablet tomorrow. Doesn't sound like your side effects are too bad for the full 6 pill dose. I love the idea of lowering my HR, but I may have to wait a while -- or get to a higher dose -- before I see a significant difference there.
I had to back off to 4 (back to 6 tonight). Still trying to figure the doses out, so far I feel the best on 4. But I have no flu like symptoms anymore, the only thing I have left (not under control) of CFS is the PEM, burning in spine and head buzz. I feel grate even went to the gym today!
May update : (approx 14 weeks after a slow build up)
I tried to move up to 6 tablets a day and had a reactivation of old symptoms. I woke up in the middle of the night feeling dreadful and in a bit of a panic. Whole body shaking , feeling of difficulty breathing, stomach ache and needing the toilet - next morning had an overall feeling of fatigue. I decided the next day to reduce the dose back to 4 a day, I have been on 4 tablets now for a further 3 weeks.
I havent felt very well since taking the extra dose. I had 2 weeks of feeling very queasy (very loose stools) , joint pains in my elbows knees and feet. The internal slight trembling I had had for years has returned and the myalgia and slight feeling of weakness in my legs has been more noticeable. My sleep pattern has been more disturbed and I have had to nap in the day nore than normal. Also my outlook on life has deteriorated somewhat - probably due to wanting this stuff to make me feel better and actually seeming to make me worse (normal human reaction I would think).
My potassium levels have dropped significantly enough for my doctor to put me on amiloride , which is a diuretic that stops secretion of potassium - I am due for a retest on my blood in a week or so.
Has anyone got an email address for Dr Chia - I tried him on email@example.com - the email address was valid but I got no reply
You might try contacting someone through the Equilibrant website Contact Us tab. http://equilibranthealth.com/shop/index.php/contacts
I think Dr Chia's son, Andrew, is a pharmacist now and in charge of this business now. I could be wrong, of course. You might have better luck with them asking questions about Equilibrant side effects. Worth a try anyway.
Still at the low dose of 1 tablet per day.
After the first dose at 0.5 tablets per day, I had typical flu-like symptoms and napped most of 2 days. That started 5 days after 1st Equilibrant dose.
After increasing to 1 tablet per day (after 14 days at 0.5), I had much milder -- almost insignificant, but noticeable -- flu-like symptoms and slept a large part of the next day. The flu-like symptoms didn't last more than 2-3 days.
I'm not seeing much change in my heart rate, but that may be because my dose is low Also, things have been far from normal here for several weeks, so that is probably as much a factor in my HR as the Equilibrant.
I'm certainly not needing naps like I used to. I might also be unconsciously doing a bit more than usual. More specifically, I've been out of the house more, and working (in a recliner) more than before. I still exceed my AT very easily -- like walking 20-30 ft at a normal pace.
Most of my symptoms are under fair control except this energy thing. To be fair, if I was anywhere near normally active, I'd probably have a lot of my symptoms back to some degree or another. Damned PENE. I feel okay, I don't need to nap, I just can't do anything without getting slammed by the PENE. My resting heart rate is too high and increases rapidly at the littlest thing --- brushing my hair or walking to the car from the house.
Licorice is an antiviral? Neat! Maybe that's another part of why it's helped me so much.
As I understand it, yes, licorice can lower potassium (though I've had low potassium problems in the past, and the licorice doesn't seem to have made it any worse). Similarly, in very high doses, it can increase blood pressure. It also supposedly helps stimulate gut healing, recover the adrenals, prevent the breakdown of adrenal hormones (so it might raise cortisol), etc. It lowers potassium because it encourages the body to hold on to salt. Which can be a good thing if your blood volume is low and you're looking to increase it. Definitely helped my blood pressure a little, as well as my ability to sit up a tiny bit longer, but I didn't notice either until I increased my dose.
...Licorice tangent over now.
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