The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Enteroviruses - revisted

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by globalpilot, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    You have titers of 1:320 for echovirus 30 in the ARUP Lab tests? I believe Dr Chia would consider that evidence of a chronic active enterovirus infection. Dr Chia says the coxsackievirus B and echovirus serotypes that most commonly cause ME/CFS are:
    • CVB3 and CVB4 first and foremost
    • Then CVB2, EV6, EV7 and EV9
    • And then much less EV11
    He does not mention EV30, but I would think it may be able to cause ME/CFS along with these other serotypes. So EC30 could be behind your ME/CFS.

    Your CVB4 titers of 1:160 are one level below the threshold of 1:320 that Chia uses as the indication for active infection. But note that the test-retest accuracy of these types of antibody assays is often give or take one level. So for example, if you tested again the next day, you might find your CVB4 comes out as one level higher at 1:320, or equally one level lower at 1:80, just due to the inherent slight day to day inaccuracy of the antibody assay.

    So you might want to focus on EV30, but remain suspicious of CVB4, especially as CVB4 seems to be one of the most common enteroviruses that Dr Chia finds active in his ME/CFS patients.

    In any case, whether it is EV30 and/or CVB4 that night be behind your ME/CFS, the treatment Dr Chia uses for such enterovirus infections is oxymatrine. Sometimes he adds in another immunomodulator inosine. He also uses the antiviral Epivir against some enteroviruses, and more recently has been using tenofovir.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
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  2. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

    1:320 is a significant titer for that serotype. Echovirus 30 is what triggered my illness. Mine fluctuates between 1:320 and 1:640. It’s not a serotype that Chia has seen a lot of in the past.
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  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    By the way, for ME/CFS with active echovirus infection, my pharmacokinetic calculations indicated that betulinic acid (from Chaga mushroom supplement) has some useful antiviral effect for echovirus 6 (and possibly other echovirus types, though this is not proven, as the antiviral study focused on EV6).

    In these pharmacokinetic calculations, I calculate what I call the Potency Factor for various antiviral drugs, supplements and compounds. The Potency Factor is a figure which represents the strength of the antiviral in vivo when taken by humans.

    The Potency Factor for betulinic acid against EV6 came out as 167. To put this into context, the Potency Factor of the (unavailable) enterovirus antiviral pleconaril against EV11, EV24 and EV30 came out as 1,081. Generally speaking, the Potency Factor of most standard pharmaceutical drugs comes out in the thousands. For example, the Potency Factor of the powerful antiviral Valcyte against cytomegalovirus came out to be 4,500.

    So betulinic acid's Potency Factor of 167 is only modest, but it is possible it might provide mild benefits to ME/CFS patients with active echovirus.

    Betulinic acid is available as a supplement: some Chaga mushroom supplements contain up to 2% betulinic acid. See: 1 2 3 The Chaga mushroom dosage is around 500 mg twice daily (500 mg corresponds to 10 mg of betulinic acid).

    If you double the dose you will double the Potency Factor; but you might want to be cautious about going above the maximum recommended dose of Chaga mushrooms (I am not sure what the max recommended dose is).

    Betulinic acid itself appears to be fine at higher doses in mice: in various mice studies, betulinic acid doses of 20 to 250 mg/kg were used. This corresponds to human doses of 1.6 to 20 mg/kg, which for an 80 kg human, that is an oral dose of 128 to 400 mg of betulinic acid.

    In vitro, betulinic acid is a very potent antiviral for echovirus, slightly better than pleconaril. However, betulinic acid has poor absorption characteristics in the gut, and thus low oral bioavailability.

    I believe taking Chaga mushroom / betulinic acid with a fatty meal may improve absorption. This is because betulinic acid has very poor water solubility (which usually equates to low oral bioavailability), but dissolves to some extent in oil. Betulinic acid dissolves well in DMSO, so could be administered that way.

    If you could increase the bioavailability by say 5 times using DMSO (to guess a figure off the top of my head), then this would correspondingly increase the antiviral Potency Factor by 5 times.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
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  4. flitza

    flitza Senior Member

    Yes. I see Dr. Chia and have an Echovirus that he feels is significant.
    Sancar likes this.

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