Emergency, Please Help

[Wayne]

@joejack102,

Below is a part of a recent post by a woman who touches on the parasympathic response and AtlasPROfilax...

As to the sympathetic overactivation I think your are right. This is my opinion 100%. A couple of months ago we both had our atlas vertebra repositioned by an AtlasPROfilax practitioner. Since then, subtle changes nearly every week, and one of those is : it is now impossible to stress the body/mind all the time, that is without going into parasympathetic mode regularly. I can check it by the flow of air in the nostrils. Deeper sleep too. Better lymph flow even doing nothing.

I think the displacement of the atlas must be an adaptation to the push for continuous stress. Certainly, if the atlas is back in place, this adaptation to a more stressful life is impossible. You HAVE to rest avery 90 minutes or so. Maybe this is what Chronic Fatigue is trying to achieve : to stop us from being able to go on sympathetic mode continuously.

 

[Tunguska]

@joejack102

Misc ideas for you (consider individually):

1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19372354
2. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0007091217335420
3. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/grp/2018/9252984/
4. http://gut.bmj.com/content/48/1/125
5. If choline acted as an artificial anti-inflammatory (previous links) e.g. silencing macrophages (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28552584), that may be considered compromising the defense against a real pathogen, leading to an overburden. Or a transient/compensatory reregulation in B/T-cell driven immune/autoimmune response - when macrophages stop the adaptive immune system may sometimes step in. Anti-inflammatory substances are abused and their negative effects under-researched.
6. If cholinergic system fails, the serotonergic system (5-ht1a/2a/2c/3/7) may re-regulate to compensate and it tends to take several weeks to reregulate. It is heavily involved in gut, of course CNS, and even immunity.
7. Poorly researched: uridine can affect epigenetic but non-methylation reactions such as HDAC inhibition: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26410212. Possibly other unknown epigenetic or DNA methylation effects since it's a nucleotide with impressive clinical effect.

I will probably not reply to this, sorry, there's nothing more I can write this week anyway. Good luck, if someday I run into something more definite I might post it on Longecity or something, but lost password and email.

 

[Sushi]

What is the SNP of the choline receptor

SNP = Single nucleotide polymorphism, or a genetic error.

 

[Tunguska]

@joejack102
Shit I forgot. This was the reason I replied but haven't slept much for 4 days (it's 5am) so forgot about it writing the points:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8051988

@alicec and others already alluded to it but that's a little more tangible idea (1g CDP, 30 days -> 1/2 blood histamine). You might have had higher baseline stimulating H1 activation prior, if it gets slashed may register as fatigue but in reality your system was too reliant on it. Or the inhibitory H3R might have upregulated somehow. Obviously you could try to supplement several grams of pure L-histidine, some people actually do get results from that but don't get your hopes up, it's more H1/H3 agonists/antagonists you'd want to test and there aren't many - Betahistine, others have tried it, ask around. For verifying symptoms mainly, I'm fairly sure it won't fix pathology.

 

[robinhood12345]

Thanks for all those studies Tunguska. I will go over them. About CDP choline there is studies where they radio label it, and 0% makes it to the blood in tact so it is just an expensive source of choline. RNA/DNA supplements can be gotten on iherb if one wants uridine. The only benefit of CDP choline making it to the blood in tact would it could go through different transporters but normal choline in high enough doses will saturate, and push through the transporter if that is what one wants to achieve. Same with all the other b vitamins- at low dose they use active transport but at high dose they passively diffuse which is good for b vitamin transporter diseases.

Sushi- I mean what gene name? SLC5a7, and slc44a1, a2, and a4 are choline transporters too. I know you said receptor but I say that just in case you meant transporter.

 

[Tunguska]

Thanks for all those studies Tunguska. I will go over them. About CDP choline there is studies where they radio label it, and 0% makes it to the blood in tact so it is just an expensive source of choline. RNA/DNA supplements can be gotten on iherb if one wants uridine.

I know. The most effective way to get uridine is sublingual Uridine Mono-Phosphate (UMP). It seems to absorb well sublingually if the supp is not too old. In any case this deserves caution: uridine is not well understood and could have bad anti-metabolic effects if not taken properly. The safest way to take it is small oral doses with a meal, with the specific intent of not increasing blood levels and instead of supplying the liver with substrate for the Kennedy pathway for phospholipid synthesis (which may produce "healthier" lipid compositions than the PEMT pathway phospholipid synthesis).

It's an open question whether uridine or choline affected the OP more; it depends on the effective dosage he got.

 

[robinhood12345]

Uridine is naturally occurring in food, and the LD50 is over 4g/kg.....

 

[Sushi]

since POTS patents have an blocked or inhibited parasympathetic nervous system, something isn't balancing like it normally would.

Not all POTS patients have a blocked or inhibited parasympathetic nervous system. I am an outlier and have an over active parasympathetic nervous system (tested extensively by an autonomic specialist) and my symptoms were helped by increased norepinephrine to activate the sympathetic nervous system.

There are a lot of studies showing choline cures POTS google choline POTS NCBI. Something in your story does not add up.

If one of the articles you are referring to this article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25466896
I know the patient who has very severe POTS. While the choline supplementation protocol devised for the patient helped with POTS symptoms, it did not cure the POTS and this patient is still very impacted by it.