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elemental diet versus juice fast

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by mike1127, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. mike1127

    mike1127

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    I believe you that you had a beneficial feeling of blood rushing through the brain and cleaning it out. I think the trick is, how do we interpret this? Is it metals leaving the brain, or is it something else, perhaps something beneficial, just not an actual dislodging of heavy metal molecules crossing the BBB, which any chemist will tell you takes a chelating agent that passes the BBB.

    Not to sound ungrateful, though, you are a real ambassador for the PHD diet, sprinkling every post with links and auxiliary information, references where we can look things up, all that good stuff. I've done some reading around the web and I'm convinced that prebiotics are very important. The impression I'm getting is that the gut has 100 trillion organisms and the species are established shortly after birth. The ratios do change but not by a whole lot. It makes you wonder how much good you can do by pouring in a few billion of a few strains. BUT... you can change the situation very easily by pouring in food for the bacteria that are there, wisely chosen food that can influence ratios and locations and growth patterns. I'm still trying to reconcile a low-FODMAP diet with the PHD, but the PHD makes this idea of "resistant starch" very clear.

    So there's no mystery to the PHD diet. It passes common sense, it passes a more detailed inspection, and it solves several problems raised in the study of other things.

    Here's my only gripe. Did they have to call it by a name with such a distasteful marketing ring to it? You should know that I'm the anti-consumer... advertising doesn't work on me, turns me the other way. You are lucky that you are a good writer and that I recognized that before I knew you were talking about "The Perfect Health" Diet or else I would have skipped it.
  2. leela

    leela Slow But Hopeful

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    Couchland, USA
    Yes, you are right, a juice fast is hard on the body. You don't want to be pushing detox all the time, you want to be sure to nourish and rebuild as well. But, since you know the veg juices make you feel better, I'd recommend slowly adding in really gentle easy-to-digest foods, like broths (sounds like bieler broth is a good one for you) soups, stews, etc. Adding in slowly will allow you to see if certain things cause reactivity. Reducing to one glass of juice a day, between meals, can keep all the benefits without overtaxing your systems.

    Kitchari is known to be both a cleansing and nourishing food. One can make it with, say, quinoa instead of rice for a lighter, more protein-rich
    meal. The spices are anti-inflammatory, gently cleansing, and other good things. Note that the hing (asafoetida) is optional. In fact there are many recipes out there with varying combos of healing spices.

    The main thing would be to have your juice separate from your solid food. You say you are doing rice protein drinks; these can paradoxically be quite difficult to digest (dampening the digestive fire, or, for many people, slightly allergy-inducing.) I always take digestive enzymes if I am drinking a concentrated protein powder. It might be more digestively supportive to move away from cold protein powders to warm broths and stews.

    Also, juice fasting is "cold". Unless you live in the tropics, this is the time of year for warming, grounding, nourishing foods.

    Good luck!
  3. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Well, I did use (transdermal) iodine for chelation — which is known to have powerful chelating effects. And, I didn't need much. For all I know, they worked together synergistically.

    Another hypothesis is that people with gut problems tend to also have "Leaky Brains" where their blood brain barrier is compromised in conjunction with their leaky gut.

    Perhaps this also allows dislodged heavy metals to leave the brain more easily with provocation? Who knows. For me, the explanation doesn't matter as long as it works.

    Leaky brain also explain why the toxins in a little cereal bar are able to cross your blood brain barrier so easily. I'm sure you are familiar with GABA. The medical literature says that GABA should not be able to cross the BBB. And yet, give some GABA to someone with anxiety and most of the time it helps them considerably. It's just another example of a leaky BBB.

    I don't know what to tell you. All I know is I went into the acupuncture office thinking it was going to be a waste of time and 30 minutes later my brain fog was lifting like I had never experienced before. It felt like blood was flowing to parts of my brain that had been previously lacking blood flow. If it's not worth it to you to give it a try, then don't!

    Hah. Well, I think if your only complaint is the name, then I'm glad I prodded you. The husband and wife scientists who created the diet were both able to cure their different health problems with the same diet. And knew they were on to something when their relatives started finding similar results before they even thought of publishing a book. The author said he knew the published diet would cure many chronic diseases, but he didn't know which ones or how many — and even he is surprised by some of the results that have come in. And honestly, when a diet helps to cure or minimize over 40 different chronic conditions, it's hard to complain about the name.

    There really isn't much marketing going on. No line of supplements. No T-Shirts or cooking utensils. No expensive speaking engagements. It's just a freakin' book that can be summarized in a simple graphic. You only need to buy the book if you want to understand the fine details or have questions about it.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  4. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Just wanting some advice. I've roasted a turkey and now want to make some bone broth. Do I need to roast the bones again before boiling them?
  5. Ripley

    Ripley Senior Member

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    Nope. Just go for it.
  6. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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  7. mike1127

    mike1127

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    @Ripley
    My information about heavy metal chelation comes from Andrew Cutler and the Yahoo group Frequent Dose Chelation. He's a chemist, and his book "Amalgam Illness" is heavy on data, diagrams, and mathematics. I have a degree in science from Caltech which gives me enough background to be confident that he's the real deal.

    The main problem with many chelation protocols is this misunderstanding of how chelators work. They don't just grab onto the metal and get excreted. They can easily drop the metal before they get excreted. There is a constant picking up and dropping of metals as the chelating agent circulates. The only way to get metal out, without just picking it up and dropping it somewhere else, is to keep a relatively steady level of the chelator over a period of three or four days. That's one round; you take a break of a few days and then do another round. It can take 50 rounds to get all the metal out safely.

    According to Cutler, iodine is not a chelator. I've never heard of it being a chelator. It looks like this idea might have come about because iodine occupies the same space as a mercury atom takes over in some molecules. Maybe an iodine atom can dislodge a mercury atom, but it won't grab onto it and carry it out. It will just push it somewhere else, perhaps a place that does more damage.

    Alpha lipoic-acid is a chelator that crosses the BBB. For that reason, taking large doses at long intervals (like once per day) is dangerous in people who have a large body store of mercury or who have amalgam in their mouths.. the ALA will move mercury into the brain. The widespread unreserved recommendation to take ALA that comes from many sources might be a very dangerous thing.

    95% of medical ideas on the internet are bunk. I don't even trust Cutler without reservations. I try to verify the science behind it.

    Something like prebiotics--well that clearly has a scientific basis. I find Wikipedia useful. I read all about bacteria, digestion, probiotics, and prebiotics. I have no doubt the science is real there. There's also a ton of science on the gut flora, the ratio of different strains, how that varies in different people, and how that relates to health conditions.

    Google searches can lead you to PubMed articles which in some cases verify particular health ideas you are looking at. Unfortunately more of the verification is done in mice and rats than in humans, but I am still willing to give an idea a try if it's verified in mice and rats.

    Another approach to see if there is molecular biology supporting an idea. The use of B12 and folate is supported by molecular biology even if not many large-scale studies have been done. Apparently there isn't a single rigorous double-blind study on the use of B12 and folate in CFS with attention to MTHFR mutations. At least I infer that from the email I get from a FMS foundation that is trying to fund such a study and stated it would be the first.

    WebMD can provide useful information, but the way they rate the available evidence seems to be focused on large-scale double-blind studies, which seem to be the last science to catch up with the research that is being done on rats/mice and the molecular biology.

    Mike

    EDIT: you mentioned GABA. I looked it up on Wikipedia and it says it does cross the BBB, just not at "therapeutic levels." But that raises the question "What do they mean by therapeutic levels?" That notion can be way out of touch with reality. That is, it can have action at much smaller doses than the so-called "therapeutic level." Lithium orotate is like this. If you ask a psychiatrist what minimum dose of lithium is therapeutic they'll tell you something like 100 mg of elemental lithium. But there is evidence that 5 mg of elemental lithium can have a noticeable effect. I take about 30 mg of elemental lithium via lithium orotate and I love the effect.

    Also there are OTC forms of GABA which are altered and do cross the BBB easily where they turn into actual GABA. Maybe a person was using one of those.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
    maryb likes this.

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