A New Decade of ME Research: The 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry presents the first in a series of articles on the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London ...
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"Effects of low-dose clonidine on cardiovascular and autonomic variables in adolescents with CFS..."

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Kyla, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. Kyla

    Kyla ᴀɴɴɪᴇ ɢꜱᴀᴍᴩᴇʟ

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    http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2431/15/117
    (open access)



     
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  2. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    How many clonidine studies do we need to have before Wyller accepts that it's not a generally useful medication?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
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  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Funny, I use an ADRA2A antagonist to help with my OI, not an ADRA2A agonist. Did they have some reason to think that Norepinephrine was too high in their patients to start with?
     
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  4. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    Wyller believes ME/CFS is due to the brain being in a continuous stress-response, he don`t seem to change his opinion, even in light of the haukeland studies..
     
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  5. DeGenesis

    DeGenesis Senior Member

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    This same group did a study which found that CFS patients had higher plasma norepinephrine levels as compared to controls. Of course higher levels does not mean too high for that specific patient population, which I think is what you're saying, and is exactly the same conclusion they came too in their previous study:

    "Low-dose clonidine attenuates sympathetic outflow and systemic inflammation in CFS but has a concomitant negative effect on physical activity; thus, sympathetic and inflammatory enhancement may be compensatory mechanisms. Low-dose clonidine is not clinically useful in CFS."

    Why they thought is would work this time, as A.B. points out, is a mystery.

    For a long time I thought clonidine would bring benefits to myself, but I was very wrong. Unfortunately, I can't import yohimbine into Canada. I've been very lucky with mirtazapine, also an alpha-2 antagonist, but doubtless this drug has more side-effects.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015
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  6. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Me too. I guess this explains why clonidine was one of the worst drugs (for me) that I've ever tried.
    And I did well with a norep reuptake inhibitor.
     
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  7. DeGenesis

    DeGenesis Senior Member

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    I think you can have high norepinephrine and still do well on a drug that raises norepinephrine. I tested high in urinary catecholamines (I admit I have no idea what the implications of this test are vs. testing plasma norephinephrine) and I do well on bupropion (an NRI) and mirtazapine (an alpha-2 antagonist, the opposite of clonidine). I just happen to tolerate the latter better.

    FWIW, I'm not recommending anyone go out and blindly take mirtazapine. I seem to recall that Alex had a dangerous experience with it.
     
  8. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    This tests what you are excreting but that doesn't necessarily reflect the levels in the synapses.
     
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  9. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Are you able to cross the border with it? I can't buy Yohimbine in the Netherlands, but it's legal to bring my personal stash in with me.
     
  10. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Mine was a bit low in urine, and quite a bit lower in two blood tests a year or two apart. There does seem to be a subsection of ME patients who are high, but it might be a relatively small minority.
     
  11. Grigor

    Grigor Senior Member

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    I've now tried Clonidine for 2 days. I can only take 1/16th of a 0.1 cause I'm too sensitive .

    Anyways while on it it's okish. I'm more tired and wasted but standing does seem to go easier. But around 7 PM I feel terrible. Like my body is inbetween my old state and the Clonidine state. No control over my body etc. Hope this will change.
    Clonidine is the first meds I try that gives me some kind of positive effect but the evening part freaks me out a bit to be honest.
     

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