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Edward Shorter reviews SO'S book It's All in your Head

duncan

Senior Member
Messages
2,240
A quarter of a century and has Shorter's stance evolved? I wish there were a way to check.

What is his publication history like?

According to Psychology Today:

He wrote about sexuality...

He wrote about gynecology...

And he published "How Everyone Became Depressed."

Now, if I can just connect the dots.
 

Mrs Sowester

Senior Member
Messages
1,055
Seriously? Is he really following those accounts?
I'm not on Twitter so can only click on the 1st three... but if two of those are anything to go by then the man has some...errr...issues with the way he appears to relate to women.
Unless, giving him the benefit of doubt, they are for research into a sexual subculture, although not sure why Twitter would be the ideal forum for research???

Edit:
Not sure why @chipmunk1 's quote isn't showing up here, but this post is a response to that.
 
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ScottTriGuy

Stop the harm. Start the research and treatment.
Messages
1,402
Location
Toronto, Canada
Dr Shorter's twitter, who he is following...this is just the top few...
 

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Mrs Sowester

Senior Member
Messages
1,055
Having just scrolled through his Twitter page it appears he was researching women's changing sexuality until February of last year... so maybe he just forgot to unfollow those ladies in small shiny outfits with strap on attachments.
The double entendres in this article about the paper are many and hilarious http://www.xbiz.com/news/192448
 

chipmunk1

Senior Member
Messages
765
Unless, giving him the benefit of doubt, they are for research into a sexual subculture, although not sure why Twitter would be the ideal forum for research???

No it is of course for research purposes only. :nerd:

Shorter is a busy individual and also happens to be an expert on pornography (not just medically unexplained illness)and has a related consulting business.

XBIZ:Tell us about your company — Edward Shorter Associates — and how it’s involved with sexual behavior and the adult industry?
Shorter:My company tracks trends in sexuality. The one we’re on top of right now is women downloading porn, and we have access to a distinctive proprietary data base, the Canadian Print Measurement Bureau’s (PMB) surveys of thousands of respondents comparing 2004 and 2014.

Some of his other interests include Electroconvulsive Therapy, particulary Pediatric Electroconvulsive Therapy and Electroconvulsive Therapy in children with developmental disorders. He leaves out no opportunity to push these. One of the reasons why his blog posts on PsychologyToday often attract much comment hatred. Generally his blog writing is not well received.

Dr Edward Shorter ‏@DrEdwardShorter 28 Apr 2014
http://www.madinamerica.com/2014/02/electroshocking-children-stopped/
Dr Breeding's nose is really going to be out of joint when he hears about Amy Lutz's new book on ECT in autistic Kids.
 
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JaimeS

Senior Member
Messages
3,408
Location
Silicon Valley, CA
Well, I think we've deconstructed this.

The guy does research on stuff that titillates him and / or plays into issues of power and dominance that ALSO pays him as a consultant.

Sounds like he's living the dream.

Also sounds like he's an expert-for-hire. Shocking. Just shocking, I say.

(No electroshock puns intended.) :whistle:
 

Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
Messages
3,061
Location
UK
Wonder what Coyne thinks of this, will he speak or remain silent ? Let's see.

James Coyne has said this:


and this:


and when challenged to explain why he has promoted Ned Shorter for the 2nd time, he says this:


And previously, Coyne had invited Shorter to provide a commentary on the Suzanne O'Sullivan book and promoted Shorter's "From Paralysis to Fatigue" and other publications:

https://jcoynester.wordpress.com/20...commentary-on-imaginary-illness-in-the-lancet

(April 30, 2016)

"...Suzanne O’Sullivan’s commentary in The Lancet shows no trappings of having been peer-reviewed. But it does have some statements for which I could call in some recognized authorities, with relevant clinical and medical expertise..."

"For the first commentary I have the honor of presenting Professor Edward Shorter. For the second, I have Professor Ronald Pies..."

He helpfully provides a link to Shorter's "readily accessible" blog, hosted by (but not editorially controlled by) Psychology Today.


In the Comments to Coyne's April 30, 2016 blog post:

Experts weigh in on Suzanne O’Sullivan’s commentary on imaginary illness in The Lancet

I have written:

...I would [be] interested in Prof Coyne’s analysis of this commentary [by Prof Shorter] that appeared last February in response to the IOM Committee’s report:

http://www.freezepage.com/1424484834CZFJDNHSFV


Prof Coyne has chosen not to respond.

He is evidently electing not to be accountable for his decision to provide CFS, ME denier, Shorter, with a platform and thereby expose patients, public and professionals to Shorter's views and opinions.

Moreover, he scapegoats patients (blaming "deviant patient trolls") for seeking "expert opinion" from Shorter.

Coyne has posted a link on his Facebook page to the excellent Keith Geraghty article, with the comment "Informative and accurate".

But simultaneously, Coyne is busy promoting Shorter on his blogs, making bizarre comments about Shorter's value as a commentator and offering bizarre justifications for why he is promoting him.

The dissonance between these two positions will be obvious to you.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,869
Shorter makes good points demolishing 'psychosomatic illness'. Ignore what he says about #mecfs

— James C.Coyne (@CoyneoftheRealm) June 25, 2016

Is it actually true, though, that Shorter is demolishing the deeply flawed concept of psychosomatic illness? If so, that would be a good thing.

Though it is not clear why Shorter then has been critical of, for example, the IOM report, which proposes ME/CFS must be viewed as an organic disease, rather than a psychologically caused one.



By the way, how do quote someone's tweets in the way you have done above (with that white box surrounding the tweet)?
 

Valentijn

Senior Member
Messages
15,786
Is it actually true, though, that Shorter is demolishing the deeply flawed concept of psychosomatic illness?
Shorter's article from February 2015 was bad enough that Psychology Today pulled it and Shorter put a heavily edited piece in its place. @Bob thoughtfully saved a copy of the original at http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...chronic-fatigue-syndrome-is-back-1-pdf.10038/ . At the very least, Shorter is absolutely convinced that ME is not a biomedical disease, and that researching it is pointless.

By the way, how do quote someone's tweets in the way you have done above (with that white box surrounding the tweet)?
In twitter you can click on a menu ("...") for the tweet, select "Copy link to tweet", copy the text which pops up, and just paste it here. The forum will automatically convert the link to the image of the tweet.
 

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
Could it be that Coyne is giving Shorter enough rope to hang himself with? Shorter is ridiculous (paraphrasing "patients can produce fever and swollen lymph nodes at will") and most people should realize this.
 

Valentijn

Senior Member
Messages
15,786
Some Shorter quotes from the 2015 article:
CFS came out of that whole brew of toxic beliefs about being tired all the time that arose in the 1970s ...
I described this sometime ago in my book, From Paralysis to Fatigue: Psychosomatic Illness in the Modern Era (Free Press, 1992). Nothing has changed since then in scientific terms. There have been no convincing new studies, no breakthrough findings of organicity, nothing.

And there never will be.


But this new Institute of Medicine report is driven by politics, not science. And politics means bringing patients groups on board. But bringing militant advocates into such a discussion is equivalent to a committee of geographers that includes members of the Flat Earth Society.

But, rather than SEID, what many of these patients have is a kind of delusional somatization, the unshakeable belief that something is wrong with their bodies rather than their minds.

This is the politics of health care at its worst: giving over to noisy advocates the responsibility for defining disease entities. It encourages patients to believe that they have a nonexistent illness, and it intimidates physicians from making the correct diagnosis and ensuring that these patients receive proper care rather than Rose of Sharon Oil.
(emphasis added by me)
 

Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
Messages
3,061
Location
UK
By the way, how do quote someone's tweets in the way you have done above (with that white box surrounding the tweet)?

For the above, I pasted the URL for the tweet and it's automatically inserted as Media.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,869
Shorter's article from February 2015 was bad enough that Psychology Today pulled it and Shorter put a heavily edited piece in its place. @Bob thoughtfully saved a copy of the original at http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...chronic-fatigue-syndrome-is-back-1-pdf.10038/ . At the very least, Shorter is absolutely convinced that ME is not a biomedical disease, and that researching it is pointless.

Yes I remember that event, and my impression of Prof Edward Shorter is that he may not have much understanding or insight into biochemistry, which is why he (like many of the somatoform psychiatrists who are also "biochemically challenged") prefers pseudo-intellectual psychosocial waffle to hard empirical evidence.



But I'd just like know where Edward Shorter is supposedly "demolishing psychosomatic illness," according to Prof James Coyne.

In Shorter's 1992 book, From Paralysis to Fatigue: A History of Psychosomatic Illness in the Modern Era, he does not appear to be demolishing psychosomatic illness; it's clear that Shorter roughly aligns to the dimwitted ideas that Simon Wessely holds on the etiology of functional disorders.

This review of Shorter's book says:
Shorter's thesis is that since the dawn of modern medicine, sufferers of psychosomatic illness unconsciously produce symptoms of whatever disease happens to be fashionable among the more delicate members of the upper-middle class. Their behavior is reinforced, Shorter says, by pricey "society doctors" who indulge them by accepting their patients' self-diagnoses.

From the above, it looks like Shorter is a true believer of the idea that functional diseases are psychosocially-caused.

The irony Shorter has missed is that the only psychosocially-caused conditions here are his own unsubstantiated beliefs that functional disorders have a psychosocial etiology. Shorter probably inculcated himself with such beliefs by uncritically reading Wessely and Co, without noticing how very little empirical evidence there is for such psychosocial etiologies.

Readiness to uncritically adopt a belief, combined with a refusal to reality check your beliefs against empirical evidence, creates the sort of flimsy pseudo-erudite output of Wessely and Shorter.



The above book review also indicates the sort of flimsy anecdotal evidence that Shorter uses to try to support his silly ideas:
In one case, a young German woman hysteric--near death from the effects of fits, paralysis and self-starvation--compelled her surgeon to remove her ovaries, a standard treatment in the mid-19th Century for hysteria. After the operation she quickly regained her health and suffered no further symptoms. Yet her surgeon later revealed to his colleagues that he had faked the operation. He merely made shallow incisions on her abdomen, leaving her ovaries intact.

Obviously, you cannot use one-off second-hand anecdotes like this as empirical evidence to support your ideas. In any case, it is pretty easy to deconstruct this anecdote, and show that it does not necessarily support the idea that the woman's symptoms were psychologically-caused: even though her ovaries were not removed by the operation, it is well-known that surgery unrelated to ME/CFS can have dramatic effects on ME/CFS. There are many accounts, even on this forum, of ME/CFS being precipitated by surgery — even minor surgery using local anesthetics.

So surgery does appear to not infrequently modulate the course of a functional disorder such as ME/CFS. Thus the incisions alone, and/or the physiological effects of the anesthetic used in this faked operation, could easily have been enough to alter the status of this patient's functional disorder.

Shorter should spend more time examining the biochemical grass roots of functional diseases, rather that imprisoning himself in the ivory tower of his own abstract but off-the-mark intellectual edifices.
 
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