Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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Edward Shorter reviews SO'S book It's All in your Head

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Snowdrop, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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  2. Denise

    Denise Senior Member

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  3. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Battle of the dimwits.

    No evidence invoked, only the assumed authority of a veteran neurologist. Sounds like Shorter's cup of tea... he just seems unhappy that she's promoting slightly different prejudices to his own.
     
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  4. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    Arguing about who gets to determine how stuff gets made up :rolleyes:
     
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  5. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    If O'Sullivan walks away after reading this review with a vague feeling he may have slighted her book a little too much...that he drew attention to the book's weaknesses and underscored its omissions perhaps a tad more than he needed to...well, likely it's all in her head.
     
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  6. Webdog

    Webdog Up to 91% remain undiagnosed

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    I always quote the IOM report when doctors suggest my condition isn't physical. Perhaps I should have this on a card in my wallet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
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  7. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    I don't know why he seems to think that patients "suggest themselves into" dizziness because it is "culturally appropriate," by which he appears to mean "untestable."

    It is certainly easy enough for a doctor, particularly a neurologist, to objectively confirm dizziness by checking for nystagmus (involuntary eye movements). With a little more effort, balance impairment can even be quantified by objective tests of the vestibular system.

    An M.D. would know this.
     
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  8. GreyOwl

    GreyOwl Dx: strong belief system, avoidance, hypervigilant

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    And I don't think it's been "culturally appropriate" to faint during the normal course of one's day since the American Civil War, and even then only if one was wearing a corset.

    Shorter is an historian, isn't he?
     
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  9. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Yes, historian, working for the psychiatry department of school of medicine at University of Toronto. :bang-head::bang-head::bang-head:
     
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  10. Large Donner

    Large Donner Senior Member

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    This shows what an idiot the man is, there is no such thing as a negative Babinski. You either produce Babinski sign or you don't. I don't even know what he means by a negative Babinski.

    It's like if you put some ham in a sandwich you simply have a ham sandwich. I would have no idea how one would produce a negative ham sandwich, perhaps you have to make it with cheese.
     
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  11. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    Ah ah, what a pathetic Clash of the Titans....

    My unprovable hypothesis is better than yours, no it's mine...
     
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  12. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    I don't know what "culture" he lives in where fatigue, pain and dizziness are "acceptable models of presenting illness" but I have experienced nothing but skepticism, bullying and derision from MDs and family/friends/coworkers when I "presented with" those symptoms.
     
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  13. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    [Satirical] The culture can be a source of suggestion as well, a subject on which psychobabblers are silent. The culture can tell us that its all in your head ideas are acceptable models of presenting illness, and these patients turn up in physicians’ surgeries with somatoform or bodily distress disorder. They do not in fact have a putative psychiatric illness but have been indoctrinated, as have the psychiatrists, into believing their chronic pain, fatigue and dizziness are in the mind because the culture says the mind is all powerful.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
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  14. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    ME has physiologically verifiable pathophysiology, dating back to tests originating from 1940, 1946, 1949 and 1954. Psychogenic explanations have ... we are still waiting to see if they have anything at all. It seems to be all rhetoric, postulating, and circular reasoning.

    Even better, brand new technology used in ME research is starting to show a myriad of things we never knew how to test for before now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
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  15. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    My experience has been very consistently that of not being taken seriously, or the severity of the problem being downplayed.

    When I first had problems as teenager with school attendance due to crippling fatigue, my account of symptoms was rejected, and people around me preferred to believe it was school phobia with faking of symptoms, or some bizarre conversion of anxiety into symptoms, when there was literally no reason to believe this explanation.

    People like Shorter sit on a comfortable chair all day, completely out of touch with reality, and unwilling to listen to the patients that might actually teach him something on the subject. He prefers his fantasies, that coincidentally look a lot like hateful prejudice masquerading as medical diagnosis.
     
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  16. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    Reality did not survive contact with prof. Shorter.

    Sad that the book needs a non-medical doctor to comment on it favorably. Presumably because most medical doctors including psychiatrists don't want to be associated with this embarassing superstitious freudian bullcr*p anymore.

    Shorther is simply a mysogynist regardless of whether or not he likes to admit it.

    One of his recents articles on Psychologytoday.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ressed/201606/the-big-divide-in-us-psychiatry

    See the female patients are always less sick than they would like to be. Even Depression is not a legitimate diagnosis in a young female. Of course, males on a college campus never ever have a "Depression" diagnosis that's why he needs to refer to the students as female undergraduates.

    They will never be like Styron.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
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  17. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Philip K Dick, apparently:
    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Phili...n.27t_Fall_Apart_Two_Days_Later.22_.281978.29

    These psychobabble theories conflict with reality in so many ways, and have done for centuries, even before Charcot and Freud. The question that arises, repeatedly, is how can supposedly intelligent people be so wrong, so often, and still be clueless?

    They might not believe in ME, but we still have to live with it.
     
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  18. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Probably because they don't have enough contact with patients for their misconceptions to fall apart.
     
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  19. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    They have either never seen a single patient in their life like prof. Shorter - Despite that they are still experts on the subject, interesting, isn't it? - or they simply disbelieve anything patients tell them, Patient= delusional and should not be listened to.
     
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  20. Bob

    Bob

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    Really? And is it the same with post-Ebola syndrome? Does he actually believe this crap? And why have the BMJ published this prejudiced, harmful and hate-filled propaganda?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2016
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