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EBV Reactivation /Zantac / Tagament to boost Immunity - help

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by SunMoonsStars, May 12, 2015.

  1. SunMoonsStars

    SunMoonsStars

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    Hello
    I'm new to immune modulating and stumbled upon Dr. Goldsteins work and book after reasearching recently.


    http://www.lef.org/Magazine/2001/3/report_tagamet/Page-01

    https://books.google.com/books?id=VtHlTVfToiQC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=Tagamet and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome&source=bl&ots=G9BEFYa_7z&sig=OUvOZ-6ZCJS3-ZkcTAt7YZwPH7c&hl=en&ei=k59AS7HjE86PlAfY46WnDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result#v=onepage&q=Tagamet and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome&f=false

    http://www.lifeextensionvitamins.com/tatotrheands.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimetidine

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Goldstein JA[Author]&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=3013060

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Goldstein

    For three months I have been suffering badly with EBV reactivation. Severe nerve pains and break outs of sores on torso and arm. Cycles of waves of terrible nausea and headaches and of course fatigue and possible spleen pain and enlargement.

    Going to a few docs who couldn't help and didn't recognize these " in some cases " symptoms. I finally got a swab test on a sore but they tested for bacterias only. Positive for two and antibiotics helped close them faster but no other symptoms went away.
    I was dying in pain. I had tried LLysine and Valtrex and Vitamin c and Zinc and Herbal supplements etc. It was too strong of a viral attack to dent it.

    I almost went to ER many nights and I couldn't stand one more day.
    I had a dermatologist look who said yes they see these symptoms and sores on immune compromised patients who had EBV. I did have a EBV test last fall after starting to feel extra fatigue and had pneumonia all winter. The EBV test showed reactivation tilters.

    So anyway. I read about tagament and zantac online Via Dr. Goldstein's book and other resources above. I ran to walgreens and chose zantac due to Dr Goldsteins book that said he switched to it due to side affect problems in tagament. The book said he treated mono and in 24 hours symptoms disappeared. I didn't predict this but I decided its worth a try.

    I took 150 in am and 150 in pm.
    In one day I noticed my symptoms literally disappeared.
    I waited because I had surges that happened strongly ever other day. I felt one trying that lasted 2 hours instead of 10 and at 25 percent the strength. It's been 5 days now. No symptoms. No nerve pain. ( a doc said it was post nerve pain like on shingles and could take years to simmer or could stay ) All gone !!!

    No nausea. No headaches. No waves or surges and no break outs and no pain. The pain was in severe range.

    Side affects though are that now I am sleeping like crazy. So tired. I read another thread here that talked about this tired feeling after being on the h2 inhibitors.

    My questions.

    Is tiredness /sleepiness (not fatigue) normal with this treatment and does it last or disappear ?

    Is this treatment something others use ongoing and how do you use it ?
    Is there a pulsing schedule ?

    I've not been tested for th1 or th2 dominance but would assume I'm th2 dominate maybe ? How do you all get tested ?
    What is typical result for CFIDS / ME / Lyme ?

    Any info and Help from your knowledge and experience for me at this point very appreciated.

    Thank you ahead of time for help and responses.
    Ps
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
    AnnaDove, Misfit Toy, zzz and 3 others like this.
  2. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

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    I've been taking generic Zantac for years. It prevents reflux at night, but has no effect on other symptoms.
     
    justy likes this.
  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    Dear @SunMoonsStars,
    Your symptoms do not sound like EBV reactivation - more like herpes zoster if anything. If you are planning to take medical treatment you need to get advice from a physician - we have a rule here not to give medical advice to individuals. I have never heard of using H2 blockers for herpes viruses.

    There probably is no such thing as Th1 or Th2 dominance. It is a popular idea in immunology but it is not very clear what it means and I cannot see that you can have a test for it. There is no evidence that ME relates either to Th1 or Th2 cytokines specifically as far as I know. I wouldn't bother buying tests that probably mean nothing.
     
  4. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    I have to agree with Jonathan here. The immunoscience is too complex to boil it down to Th1 vs Th2.
     
  5. SunMoonsStars

    SunMoonsStars

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    Diwi9, zzz, South and 1 other person like this.
  6. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    Are you coming into this having been diagnosed with Me/CFS? Or not?
     
  7. SunMoonsStars

    SunMoonsStars

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    I am confused by your responses as I have read many posts and articles and research by cfids docs and others on this theory and treatment of viruses esp
     
  8. SunMoonsStars

    SunMoonsStars

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    Yes. I am diagnosed CFIDS / ME since 2000 and then I had EBV reactivation too. Along the way various infections take turns and I have not had another EBV reactivation until now.
    I have a test showing a strong positive for EBV reactivation and the dermatologist verified this. They are not herpes sores. 100 percent positive .
    The symptoms I have are more on the rare side and severe cases of EBV reactivation. With very immune compromised patients.
     
    zzz likes this.
  9. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @SunMoonsStars - what an interesting experience! Several years ago my doctor advised me to try Tagamet to boost my very weak immune system. I tried it but it caused a very dark mood for me, it made me depressed and I couldn't handle it so had to stop. Now I'm wondering whether Zantac would work similarly without causing a dark mood? Definitely worth a try.

    It did sound very strange to me that something like Tagame would help the immune system, but my doctor showed me an article at the time, and here's a link to another one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2657245
    and another: http://www.lifeextensionvitamins.com/tatotrheands.html

    Of special interest to me is it's supposed ability to increase NK cell functioning - mine is very low.

    In regard to Th1/Th2 dominance: I think there is evidence suggesting Th2 dominance in CFS/ME. Again, low NK cell numbers seem to suggest this. Here's an article: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1808936/

    And here's an article about self-testing for Th1/Th2: http://www.academicjournals.org/article/article1379414498_Roelant and De Meirleir.pdf
    I don't think this is available to the general public but it's an interesting concept.
     
    heapsreal, AnnaDove, zzz and 2 others like this.
  10. SunMoonsStars

    SunMoonsStars

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    Mary !! Thank you so much. Wow.
    I'm Reading all your links.
    I did read somewhere that tagament had more side affects or such so I chose zantac. So your doctor did even prescribe this.

    I can not believe how well it worked.
    I tried so many supplements and things
    I really had a strong case. It was attacking me head on it was so scary I was about to admit myself to hospital.

    I'm pretty happy but I want to learn more and find a doctor who works in this area of immune modulation.
    What kind of doctor do you see that prescribed this ?
     
  11. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    My doctor is an MD. Actually he used to work as a psychiatrist many years ago and then discovered that many (most?) of his patients had nutritional deficiencies of various types. He's extremely knowledgable about nutrition and supplements and prefers to treat that way, without drugs whenever possible.

    Unfortunately he has not been able to help me with CFS/ME but I think does have me on a pretty sound supplement program in general, which I have supplemented myself with things I've learned here (Freddd's B12 protocol for one)

    So did you just take Zantac twice? That's just amazing how well it worked for you!

    How long have you been fatigued now since stopping it? Hopefully this will wear off soon, though I don't know anything about this reaction.
     
  12. SunMoonsStars

    SunMoonsStars

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    I took 150 2x a day for three days
    I am now doing 75 2x a day and going to go to 1 x day In not sure if I should stop or keep going since It could help me otherwise and the EBV episode was quite severe and even though symptoms are gone in sure its still there and needs more time to be put into remission.

    Yeah I need more direction and help in this area. Hard to find a doctor willing and wanting to do these things.

    Yours sounds great.
     
  13. SunMoonsStars

    SunMoonsStars

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    If you read that other phoenix rising post I put a link to. They also said they slept like crazy on this treatment. But they stopped posting so I don't know the long term outcome.
     
  14. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    one more question - do you take the zantac on an empty stomach because it reduces stomach acid?
     
  15. trails

    trails Senior Member

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    I took Zantac for two days before I unfortunately developed a serious skin rash from it. During that time (especially during the second day), I experienced a significant improvement in fatigue symptoms and possibly cognitive abilities, as well. Having said that, the fatigue improvement wasn't overly pleasant - more a wired but tired feeling. Still, it was better than falling asleep at my desk and I was very disappointed that I had to stop taking it.
     
  16. SunMoonsStars

    SunMoonsStars

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    At first I did not care when I took it. But now I am taking care to take it on empty stomach.
     
  17. SunMoonsStars

    SunMoonsStars

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    This describes my feeling. Not the rash but a little wired but tired! I took a long nap even yesterday and I never nap. Its not wired like awake wired. A little jittery. Going down to half my dose has helped a lot already.
     
    natasa778 likes this.
  18. SunMoonsStars

    SunMoonsStars

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    Maybe its all about finding the right dosage for us each as the immune system down regulation probably is all to a different extent anyway. And also during viral outbreak the virus can trick the immune system to down regulate further to hide from it. So would need more during episodes vs ongoing. Could be.
     
  19. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    I remember coming across a few studies showing that taking h2 antihistamines on their own, even for short periods of time, greatly increases risk of developing allergies. This risk was significantly reduced or elimiated even (I can't remember which) when h2 blockers where taken alongside h1 ones.

    From what I remember (but could be wrong) those studies were on healthy subjects, so no idea if the same would apply in skewed up ME immune situations, but probably worth keeping in mind?
     
  20. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    see what I just posted above, might be relevant?
     

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