New Atmosphere, New Vision: Gibson and Whittemore Kick Off Invest in ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry reports on Dr. Gibson's introduction and Dr. Whittemore's keynote speech, at the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London.
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dymatize 100 whey

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by outdamnspot, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    I've read that a CFS specialist in Australia recommends this whey protein for PEM. Has anyone tried it? It's kind of expensive but I'm in a bad crash at the moment, so was considering getting it. Should it be okay to take if I can't tolerate dairy/lactose at all?
     
  2. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Senior Member

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    @outdamnspot - I don't know anything about the Australian CFS specialist, but I take whey protein as a convenient source of multiple amino acids...which supplementing with does help some PwME. If you are dairy intolerant, it might be an option to try a bone broth protein mix or plant-based protein mix and determine if amino acids help you.
     
  3. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    thanks, I believe that particular whey protein is recommended because it has the highest concentration of amino acids or something. The bone broth protein does look interesting, however, and might help my gut issues too ..
     
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  4. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    yea whey is a good job in crash.
    body can burn amino as fuel alternatives.
    alcohol good fuel alternative also if you can tolerate
     
  5. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    what about whey and dairy intolerance, though?
     
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  6. lafarfelue

    lafarfelue Senior Member

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    I use it and it works well for me. It's a hydrolysed type. They take a lot of the lactose out of it.

    I tend to use it when I'm feeling really fatigued and may be on the verge of a crash, and when I'm experiencing PEM. It boosts me physically and a little bit cognitively. Buuuuut I try to stay conscious keep activities down despite feeling like I have more energy/stamina.

    It is expensive but I find I don't blow through it with moderated use. I buy it through iHerb (we don't have the full US style Amazon in Australia, but I assume it's available more cheaply there).
     
  7. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    Hmmmm.....Dont use it?
    Or use non dairy whey.
     
  8. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    Thanks. I'm in Aus too and was looking at buying it from iHerb. For reference, do you find you're generally unable to tolerate lactose?
     
  9. Richard7

    Richard7 Senior Member

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    Hi
    I think that the oringinal mention was here http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-encephalopathy-cfs.48446/page-10#post-798387

    I would not think that there was much advantage in buying this particular brand.

    As @Murph explained the advantage was the high levels of available leucine and lysine.

    If you go to the relevant wikipedia pages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucogenic_amino_acid and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucogenic_amino_acid you will find that amino acids vcan be divided into those that can be used to make glucose and those that can be broken down to make ketone bodies.

    If you go to this page http://themedicalbiochemistrypage.org/amino-acid-metabolism.php and follow the links you will find that it is much more complicated.

    But the central idea, "If you are unable to turn glucose into energy use amino acids or lipids" makes sense to me.

    Over November and December I played around with mixtures of amino acids trying to make this work.

    I used amino acids in part because according to the model that CFS discovery and the Melbourne research team are working on our metabolic disfunction leads us to be deficient in the digestive enzymes needed to break proteins into the amino acids and short peptides that we can absorb.

    You could just get some leucine. Examine https://examine.com/supplements/leucine/ says that the upper tolerable limit for supplementation is 500mg/Kg body weight.

    One downside for some people might be that it stimulates insulin. (Making it harder to access fat stores and make energy from lipids.)

    My preference was to use an amino acid mix, on the assumption that my long standing issues with digestion would mean that I was generally low in some of these amino acids. I played around with a mix called future whey that I would not recommend as it contains sugar alcohols and I do not like diarrohea. I also used an EAA mix which was better.

    I made these mixtures up with 12.5g amino acids 3.5g salt 2.25g potassium chloride and 2g bicarbonate of soda (NaHCO3). I have PoTS and need the salt and potassium anyway, but the salt and bicarb in this mixture helps by providing the sodium for the sodium dependent amino acid transporters that we all use to absorb amino acids from our intestines.

    Made this way it is absorbed very quickly. I found that it really helped with PoTS.

    But I am still playing around with these things and trying to get the right balance for me.
     
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  10. lafarfelue

    lafarfelue Senior Member

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    I don't tolerate lactose (I miss cheese :cry:), but I have not noticed additional gut issues due to my consumption of Dymatize whey protein. I hope you're able to tolerate it, because it is sometimes a bit of a situation saver.:thumbsup:
     
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  11. Richard7

    Richard7 Senior Member

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    I should add that other (non ketogenic) amino acids could also be useful.

    If you look at the naviaux reserach you will see that we are pretty bad at making sphingolipids. To make sphingolipids you need serine which is made from glycolysis (in healthy people).

    Serine is pretty expensive, but glycine (which is cheap) that we are also likely to be low in is made by one step from serine, and can be made into serine by reversal of the same step.

    To make the sphingolipids you will also need phosphatidyl choline (in lecithin) and palmitoyl CoA (which I think you will have as a matter of course but I am beyond the limits of my knowledge here). It is also stimulated by menaquinone 4 (vitamin k MK4)
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/18007585_Vitamin_K_stimulation_of_sphingolipid_synthesis

    I am pretty ill, and am making my way through the biochemistry but slowly, but not doing glycolysis, or not doing enough of it will probably cause a lot of shortages. I know that I need a lot of inositol (which is made from the same glycolysis intermediate as serine (glucose-6-phosphate).

    I also think that it might be worth supplementing proline (naviaux mentions that we (or at least men with me/cfs I tend to focus on that part of his conclusions) are converting proline into argenine, ornithine and citrulline.
     
  12. Murph

    Murph :)

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    That's my doctor and the person who has probably got most benefit from dyamtize iso 100 is me! I have had a massive turn around in health. Started playing soccer and, later, tennis too. I still have to watch out for PEM but my thresholds have been much higher.

    One weird thing I've noticed: not every brand has the same effect. Some types of whey do very little for me. Unfortunately, Dymatize removed their detailed amino acid breakdown from their packaging, so I'm unable to do the sort of comparisons I'd like to to see if I can find what the magic ingredient is.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  13. lafarfelue

    lafarfelue Senior Member

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    That's really interesting, but sorry to hear it's not working as well for you. (I just got a batch with the new packaging but haven't inspected/had much of it yet.)

    Would you please let us know if/when they get back to you..?
     
    Murph likes this.
  14. outdamnspot

    outdamnspot Senior Member

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    I ended up shelling out for a tub. I've only tried one dose so far, but it actually made me really sleepy, and then I felt really hungry/low blood sugar-ish a couple of hours later. I'm on a Keto diet and have read protein powders can cause an insulin spike, and then crash?
     
  15. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    Same here murph.
    There must be something in the iso thats not same in others.
    I use biotech fuel. ....https://biotechusa.com/products/premium-proteins/protein-fuel/

    I was low in proline...serine and glycine in amino test.....and glutamine.
    Dont think i saw proline in any protein powders.
    Whats it function?
     
    Murph likes this.
  16. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    Here is dyno whey 100 breakdown.
    I see proline gets a mention.
    Jees must try this juice.
     

    Attached Files:

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  17. Murph

    Murph :)

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    good detetctive work! proline worth a try.
     
  18. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I've been puzzling over amino acids after getting my latest NutrEval test and dealing with a bout of PEM, which taking BCAAs seemed to pull me out of.

    My first question, is where are they all going?

    My total protein used to be low on a CMP as I was low in immunoglobulins. Since I've been on IVIG, this isn't the case, its now low normal.

    My NutrEval seems to correspond with the metabolomics research. I'm low in:

    Alanine
    Arginine
    Citrulline
    Glutamine
    Histidine
    Isoleucine
    Leucine
    Lysine
    Ornithine
    Proline
    Serine
    Tyrosine

    5-HIAA is off the charts but we've ruled out a carcinoid tumor.

    And I eat about100g protein daily and take 1-5g each of BCAAs, carnitine, citrulline, glycine, lysine, methionine, taurine, and tyrosine.

    I've been pondering getting a customized amino acid blend, as I'm allergic to casein and lactose, and I've seen recent info that many of the vegan powders have heavy metal contamination.

    Has anyone looked into why we may be short of these aminos? Why are we short of them?

    And what's the most efficient way to get them into us? And if we do, will that help our function?
     
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  19. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    We are short of them because pdh pathway is bollocksed so body switch to amino burn in krebs cycle.
    I am low in these also.
    I use proteinfuel now. Its brill for energy.
     
  20. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    How would one know if their PDH cycle is blocked? My private and lactate are low normal.

    I looked up ProteinFuel - it is made of whey, which typically contains at least some casein and is missing several amino acids that many of us need. Our needs are different than those of body builders. Also, have they tested for heavy metals?

    https://www.consumerreports.org/dietary-supplements/heavy-metals-in-protein-supplements/

    It seems prudent to take the aminos we need in the purest form possible, without heavy metal contaminants.

    Does anyone have an efficient way of doing this that's not a whey or egg protein product?
     

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