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Dr. Terry Wahls - MS recovery plan

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by xchocoholic, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    On Terry Wahls Facebook page today (the bold is mine--a good reminder):

    "As people change their diets (and their family's) it is a big challenge. Go at the pace that you can manage. It is important to have high quality protein. Shoot for 9 cups vegetables/ berries - but if you cannot do not stress. Simply be sure you are not eating white flour, sugar, high fructose corn syrup (hopefully you are going gluten and dairy free)."
  2. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    I have been having some strange symptoms after my last breakfasts of greens, mushrooms and protein. For the last 3-4 days I have gotten horrendously thirsty and hungry and my energy has taken a dive. The thirst is REALLY BAD, which tells me my body is depserate to flush something out.

    What could this be? Does anyone have any ideas. Please let me know if you do. Thanks.
  3. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Hi dream,

    Sounds like you need to eliminate these and try them one at a time again.
    I've never had this kind of reaction that I know of. I get rashes, swelling, etc.

    I had a long post but lost it .. Tc .. X

    Ps. Anyone trying to go from the sad (standard american diet) to this one will probably have a rough time. Withdrawals from gluten, casein, sugars, etc can be hard, esp for us. It may be better to go gfcf then paleo to avoid this ..
  4. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    HI X--

    I have been eating an all organic diet for 35 years, w/o any sugar or processed foods EVER. I have been eating mostly Paleo for about 4-5 years. SO I didn't think the Wahls diet was a big change. However, I have NEVER eaten this many greens and mushrooms in my life! I am wondering if eating kale 3X/day for many days in a row, and then again, is not that great of an idea for me right now...?

    I am going to eat more other vegies for a few days and keep the greens and mushrooms ltd.
  5. Chris

    Chris Senior Member

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    Hi, Dreambirdie; I posted above about my rise in TSH--still investigating, but don't feel hypothyroid--feel in fact pretty good--but came to this after having done quite a bit of it for quite a while, and have not gone whole hog in quite your fashion. I still have breakfast starting with an orange or 1/2 grapefruit (that counts) followed by a mix of oatmeal/quinoa/hemp/ground flax seed, on which I scatter mixed berries (that counts) and pomegranate juice. And feel fine until mid morning, when I make a big glass of juice from kale, etc etc. Then lunch may be a soup with mushrooms, tomatoes, onions, nutritious yeast, kale, peppers, etc.--that all counts--and then mid afternoon either another glass of juice or a "roughie" (smoothie made on a food processor) and then supper a large plate of mixed veg (sweet potato, chard, onion, etc etc. plus some tempeh or whatever.

    I think it is possible to integrate a lot of this stuff into meals that do contain some good carbs, and I wonder if your body would not like some more immediately accessible carbs with which to start the day? I think mine does, and I am doing fine so far. By no means cured, but friends as well as my head tell me things are improving. So like others above I would suggest slowing down and backing off a bit--this is not a race!
    Best, Chris
    Dreambirdie likes this.
  6. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Yeah Chris, maybe I will sprout kale leaves from my ears if I don't back off a bit real soon...lol!

    I don't do well with cereal, and certainly not fruit, for breakfast, but maybe soup would work. I can't eat eggs every day, so maybe some meat (in the soup) instead on alternating days. Other meals are easier. I know when I've eaten "the right thing" because I feel satisfied and a bit energized. Lately this is not happening on the Wahls diet, so obviously some changes are needed.

    Thanks for your input.
  7. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    Could it be folic acid in the veggies like kale which Fred has mentioned repeatedly?
  8. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Good question. Please tell me more, Sara.

    I have usually not had any issues with vegies, but maybe it's the quantity I have attempted to eat that has upset my folic acid balance.
  9. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    Hubby made a yummy frittata with kale and it was wonderful for my lunch for leftovers.
  10. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    Dream,
    Perhaps Fred can give you more info on the subject , but I think he said in one of his threads that folic acid and folinic acid in veggies such as kale can have negative side effects, and we better limit consumption of veggies high in folate. Sorry, that is the only thing I know.
  11. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Hi dream,

    I'm not sure what eating the same veggies would do. I eat about 15 - 20 different fruits and veggies a day. Waaaay more than I ever ate before. I'd gotten into eating too much meat and not enough fruits and veggies .
    I've been lucky that my hfs is keeping their shelves stocked.

    Also, I really need to eat meat at every meal too. Just about 2 - 4 oz at a time tho. I eat steak during the day and chicken at night.

    I can't handle grains at all. My pre breakfast is a cup of amande yogurt with blueberries and a handful of raw nuts.
    That gets my glucose level up enough so I can make breakfast. Breakfast is steak and salad.
    Smoothies are made with veggies, fruits, avocados, flax and spirulina.

    I've been making boiled eggs and flax muffins for quick snacks.

    Tc .. X
  12. aprilk1869

    aprilk1869 Senior Member

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    Here are some quote from Fred on the matter

    Folic acid is only found in supplements and fortified foods whereas folinic acid acid is found in supplements and fuit, vegetables, grains etc. Rich says that there might be a problem with the MTHFS gene which means people can't utilize the folinic acid. Instead is builds up in the system and blocks the folate receptors. This means that methylfolate (found in some supplements and meat) can't do its job.

    Fred has had to a lot of experimenting to see how many vegetables he can eat and the timing of the Metafolin supplements.

    For him, folate deficiency starts with angular chelitis and then IBS. Other people might experience other problems.
  13. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Thanks April. I am going to experiment with less vegies and see what happens.
  14. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Is anyone else having problems with preparing these veggies ? The act of washing and cutting
    these are making me feel like I'm going to have a seizure. Especially in the mornings. I have
    petite mals regularly but it seems anything that requires fine motor skills is making me
    feel jittery. Writing and doing my nails have been a problem since I first got sick in 1990 but this is the first time I've spent this much time chopping.

    Ideas ? Does this get better ? I'm open to doing drugs .. Lol .. Thanks .. X
  15. Chris

    Chris Senior Member

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    Hi, Xchocoholic (how did you manage this? I can control but not abolish the dependence)--I now have an office chair on wheels in my tiny kitchen so that I can sit while unloading the frig and washing and cutting those veg--it helps me a bit.

    And I have found a terrific discussion of just my situation with regard to thyroid (and rising LDL cholesterol) in a podcast by Chris Masterjohn, which I strongly recommend to anyone who runs into thyroid trouble while following Wahls--as is likely to happen, as much of the recommended diet is goitrogenic:
    http://chriskresser.com/chris-masterjohn-on-cholesterol-and-heart-disease-part-3

    I am still feeling good and slowly better! And will be seeking a good iodine supplement since kelp seems less than totally reliable.
    Best, Chris
  16. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Hi chris

    Good to hear thst you're doing well. I'm not eating as many of the goitrogenic foods as dr w recommends. I have hashimoto's and I just didn't get energy from these like I do the leafy greens.

    On ldl, mine is good due to more healthy fats and less unhealthy fats. Could be the paleo diet helped this too tho ...

    I sit to chop veggies too. Cfs cooking 101, eh ? It's the fine motor skills I'm struggling with. I googled
    Fm skills and saw it happens in the same part if the brain as ataxia. I had ataxia fir 16 1/2years so I understand the connection. I'm just struggling with not feeling well while chopping. I don't feel well
    when I write either tho. I wasn't sure if I needed to back off ...

    Tc . X (today but maybe not tomorrow) .. Bwaa ha ha ..

    Ps. Please post info on iodine if you find one you like. I caved and bought wakame. Hoping I don't start glowing in the dark ..
  17. Legolas

    Legolas

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    Does she say anything on how the vegetables should be prepared? cooked, raw, steamed,...
    For some nutrients it makes a huge difference whether the food is cooked or not.

    This is mainly important for foods containing isothiocyanates. They are formed by enzymes (myrosinase) out of their precursors called glucosinolates.
    If you boil broccoli for exemple, the myrosinase enzymes will be destroyed and the glucosinolates won't be converted, so you will loose a great portion of it's nutritional/antioxdant properties.
    One of the main isothiocyanates is sulforaphane. Search more information on google or pubmed.

    Cooking Broccoli Destroys 90+ Percent of Anti-Cancer Compound Sulforaphane http://www.naturalnews.com/025893_broccoli_sulforaphane_research.html
    Boost anti-cancer properties of broccoli by spicing it up http://www.naturalnews.com/033948_broccoli_anti-cancer.html

    More information on cruciferous vegetables http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/phytochemicals/isothio/
  18. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Hi Legolas - no, she didn't - she did mention that cooking destroys some enzymes but makes minerals more available, I think, but that was it.
  19. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I feel better if I eat veggies raw. Cooked veggies don't give me the energy boost raw does. And I'm not wasting time and energy cooking or cleaning pots and pans. : )

    Raw veggies may be too diffucult to digest at first so lightly steaming
    these may help you adjust. Digestive enzymes helped me for awhile too but I don't seem to need these now.

    H pylori stopped my digestion last september too. Treatment resolved
    this ..

    Fwiw ...For me, feeling hyper isn't the same as feeling energized. That urge to run up a mountain after eating a cookie wasn't good energy. ; ) Since giving up toxins like gluten, hfcs,
    caffeine, etc ... it's easier for me to tell the difference.

    FWIW ... I wouldn't expect changes overnight. It takes years to undo the damage caused by toxins and poor diet. It actaully took me about 6 - 8 months to feel the full benefits of caffeine elimination.

    For now, I'm eating about 7 cups leafy greens (red and green kale, spinach, bok choy, watercress, parsley (1 cup) cilantro),

    1/2 - 1 cup cruciferous (brocolli and red cabbage only) brussel sprouts make me tired ...

    1/4 cup red, orange and yellow peppers ... too many make me gassy ...

    1/4 cup onions (leeks + red onions)

    and 2 garlic cloves,

    1 avocado,

    and

    4 fruits a day. I've been able to increase my fruits
    on this diet so that's a plus. Kow.. My hyperinsulinemia was stopping me before.

    I'm at 1/4 to 1/2 lb of meat and 2 - 4 boiled egg yolks ...

    Eating this way has really simplified this plan for me ... It takes about an hour to clean all the veggies that I'll need for the next 3 - 4 days. Then an hour each day to chop them all up. I also use my chopped veggies in my smoothies so that's ready to go too ...

    Tc .. X
  20. Purple

    Purple Bundle of purpliness

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    With broccoli, we have the florets usually heat prepared (stir fried or boiled for a short time) and the stalks juiced (with a slow speed juicer). We either boil the left over pulp from juicing for a vegetable stock/broth with other left over veggies (for minerals) or use it as part of a face mask or mix with other things to dehydrate for crispy snacks.

    Broccoli sprouts sound very healthy, does anyone have experience with making them?

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