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Dr Singh's XMRV Patents: Something for Dr Lipkin -and the NY Times- to chew on

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by parvofighter, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    I agree that that sounds very speculative but it is true....

    Good point Alex :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    .....isn;t that interesting...they carve out the cancer and yet they are left with this mysterious fatiguing and cognitively challenging illness that no one knows how to treat......because the virus involved is also doing its work someplace else???

    Talk about connecting the dots - that would be scary exciting. That would completely freak out the medical world...maybe Mikovits was right! Maybe this is bigger than HIV/AIDS :confused:

    That would blow everything up...the implications of that are really too exciting to think about..I do remember Annette Whittemore saying breast cancer researchers were interested....which makes sense if its a hormone triggered drug then breast cancer would fit right in there I believe. :D:D:D

    We are definitely getting ahead of ourselves but one can wonder.....
     
  2. George

    George waitin' fer rabbits

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    Hey ya, sorry about that sometimes we forget that everybody doesn't know everything. Ya know.

    heres a simple link and ya can go from there if ya want to know more

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-chemotherapy_cognitive_impairment

    we've talked about some of the similarities before by I don't remember where. (grins)
     
  3. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    It's being actively researched. Here's one study

    One flaw in the XMRV is causing it all argument is that the fatigue appears to occur post treatment - not before treatment - it seems to be the chemotherapy or radiation that is causing it - not the cancer or the factors associated with it itself.

    Its actually turned into a big field of study - almost overnight. It looks like there more work being done on fatigue post cancer than into CFS at this point.
     
  4. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Thanks, CBS - I've only just seen your response to my questions (I was distracted by the magic peach :worried:).
     
  5. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Interesting - but the syndrome seems to be restricted to cognitive impairment (not PEM, extreme fatiguability, sleep disorders etc. that go with ME/CFS) and it seems to be related to chemo rather than the cancer as such, unless I've misunderstood (always, always possible). Am I missing something (ditto)?
     
  6. Jemal

    Jemal Senior Member

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    Fatigue after cancer treatment (not only breast cancer) is a big problem. It's heavily connected to the treatment, though. So like Cort I am not so sure XMRV plays a role in that. Still, research in that area might benefit us as well.

    And as I stated before: if the link between XMRV and breast cancer pans out, it's going to be huge. Even more huge than a link between XMRV and autism (children!).
     
  7. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    I'm of the opinion that if the cancer link holds up as broadly as Dr. Singh suggests, there will be quite a large number of assumptions that will be revisited. Chemo, cancer, disruption of life plans, financial stress; it's all so intertwined that attributing the fatigue to chemo alone might have been a bit premature or simplistic.
     
  8. Bob

    Bob

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    If breast cancer is testing at 25% for XMRV, then I think this is about the same as prostate cancer...
    I reckon that it might not be a coincidence that they are both the same...
    The reasons for them both having a '25%' figure might be related.
     
  9. urbantravels

    urbantravels disjecta membra

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    Do the percentages in breast cancer break down along the lines of the *type* of breast cancer?
     
  10. VillageLife

    VillageLife Senior Member

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    I HATE the XMRV virus, but we are nailing it down and we are going to stop it!!

    3 cheers to Dr Singh.
     
  11. George

    George waitin' fer rabbits

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    Hey guys I didn't post all the links to all the stuff that got talked about or anything. If ya want to know more you can Google it. (grins)

    Back in the day we just talked about the possibility, that because it's not a 100% of the BC survivors, that the chemo "could" create and event like Post Viral Event that triggers those with the XMRV and the XMRV causes the ME/CFS by driving up the viral load. But this was like October 2009 after CFSAC and Dr. Coffin's Breast cancer comment. Everybody was trying to figure out what he meant or if he just misspoke. I think we decided at the time it was a misspoke. (grins) Anyway I thinks it's on one of the forever long threads somewhere.

    My point was sometimes some of the talk is in short hand based on old conversations, we don't mean to leave folks outside scratching their heads or make it sound like wild speculation. Most of you all, know that Alex "always" does his homework and I've never heard him speculate without say specifically that he was going to speculate and then make a "possibility" statement. But some of the newer folks don't know some of the older folks and how they post.

    It's important as we all know, (grins) from the past, that how a person posts can lead to miss understandings. This is too good a day to have any of those. (woof!)
     
  12. Bob

    Bob

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    That's very interesting, thanks for pointing that out Alex.

    That's not necessarily a flaw, because ME is generally triggered by an event such as stress or exposure to toxins... What worse stress event, and exposure to toxins, is there than a course of chemotherapy... So maybe the chemotherapy is a trigger event for an ME-like illness in cancer patients who carry the XMRV virus.
     
  13. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Wasn't the prostate cancer a particularly aggressive form - i.e. a subset of prostate cancers? Are Dr Singh's cadavers just random people? If XMRV really is in 25% of breast cancers in random people, yes, that is huge... it's finally dawning on me...
     
  14. urbantravels

    urbantravels disjecta membra

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    Some people, on the other hand, experience remission from ME/CFS after chemotherapy. And chemotherapy is one of the treatment options currently being explored.

    I think we blur the edges of discussion of ME/CFS when we start sweeping any condition involving "fatigue" into the net. As we all know all too well, "fatigue" as a symptom is as common as mud. I would also ask the question if the "post-chemo fatigue" meets the proper (i.e. Canadian Consensus) criteria in all aspects, not just that it's lingering unexplained fatigue, which could have a million causes.
     
  15. George

    George waitin' fer rabbits

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    actually I think we were more interested in post chemo cognitive dysfunction or at least I was at the time.
     
  16. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    I've come across a few articles over the years (sorry, no links) on the subject of chemo (particularly Interferon) patients developing CFS like symptoms. I recall some interest by researchers on how this reaction could lend some insight into the mechanism of immune dysfunction in CFS. (Interesting is that I have heard more than one PWC who was also on Interferon for HCV, claim a significant improvement in CFS symptoms while on the drug....which is very unusual since Interferon has brutal side effects.)

    Anyhow, it seems that many things with profound effects on the immune system can trigger ME/CFS.....why not Interferon, or any other Immune modulating chemo agent. I guess time will tell if they developed ME/CFS as a result of XMRV, the drugs, or both.
     
  17. Otis

    Otis Señor Mumbler

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    Yes. From the patent.

     
  18. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I am wondering whether the 25% of breast cancers positive for XMRV in Dr Singh's study is likely to be an overestimate of the population value due to some kind of bias in how cadavers get donated for research. For example, would you be more likely to donate your body to research if you were dying of breast cancer that had resisted treatment and therefore had more reason to think that you could especially help others by your donation? I am wondering if we are more likely to be looking at a particularly aggressive subset of breast cancers in patients, in a similar way to XMRV turning up in 25% of particularly aggressive prostate cancers in patients but in a smaller proportion of those with less aggressive tumours.
     
  19. George

    George waitin' fer rabbits

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    If the work is never published we will never know.
     
  20. CBS

    CBS Senior Member

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    'Chemo Fatigue' not from Chemo? Not so fast!

    As for the so called phenomena of "chemo fatigue," a recent study suggests that the fatigue may be from the cancer itself and not from the fatigue:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/12/health/research/12mental.html?scp=13&sq=cancer chemotherapy&st=cse

    or

    http://www.aacr.org/home/public--media/aacr-in-the-news.aspx?d=2130
     

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