The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Dr Raymond Perrin(perrin technique) is hoping to have published reports this year

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by keenly, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    Yeah I have all those answers.

    Jesus H Christ


    Harvard medical school do so much for CFS patients?

    The mainstream narrative is that diseases are from genetic or bad luck.
     
  2. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member

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    Thank you @Kina for this......sometimes the alternative practioners put up such a volume of inaccuracies around their web of justification for their "theory" I find it difficult to untangle it. You have described what I have struggled to put into words.

    other angles that should prompt suspicion, I was going to suggest were:

    1). He has a trade mark for his process but hasn't shown results in the form of trials to prove that the process works. This is very similar to other so called processes (lightening process etc). He is using trade marking to infer credibility to the consumer.

    2) He is using historical mediaeval practices that have been superseded by modern medicine. I don't think he recommends leeches or humours, but the principles appear to be the same. Basically he has shoehorned modern medical terms into old wives tales about The removal of these unnamed "toxins" to give them a perceived validity. Once again without any proper scientific studies to prove what he's saying. This pseudoscience trick is deployed by many internet charletons and as you mention doesn't seem to show a basic understanding of how the human body works in terms of modern medicine. This I think is the clearest indication to me that it is a moneymaking con preying on people who are desperate. More akin to faith healing rather than true science.
     
  3. HowToEscape?

    HowToEscape? Senior Member

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    This merits a triple super ultra like button.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
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  4. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    .

    In response to the points above...

    The blood brain barrier can become more permeable and toxins can definitely get into the brain, as in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420870/

    Chelation is a valid technique and is recommended by the CDC in some situations. Here are 2 examples:

    https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/csem.asp?csem=1&po=13

    https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/publications/books/plpyc/chapter7.htm

    There's a huge amount of misinformation on it as in the Wikipedia links provided above. And Harvard can churn out garbage as well as anyone else.

    They don't differentiate. That's why if one is chelating, nutrients needed by the body may become depleted with disastrous results if care is not taken to replenish them appropriately. This is why chelation got a bad reputation before this lesson was learned. But doctor's know this now, and it's very safe with proper medical supervision and nutrient replenishment.

    The liver can retain toxins within the mitochondria, especially if it is stressed and overloaded trying to deal with too many toxins. The biochemical detox processes can only work so fast, one of the gating factors is having the necessary chemical cofactors (glutathione and many other things) to do the job, which many of us lack enough of .

    This link explains how toxins can mimic mitochondrial diseases:

    http://www.mitoaction.org/blog/mitochondrial-disease-and-toxins

    And, in case you're in doubt, figure 2G has a vivid picture of arsenic in mitochondria...it's the giant black circle:

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/figure/10.1177/0192623308327408?

    Mitochondria that are filled with toxins can't make ATP properly. And, as far as I know lack of ATP causes fatigue.

    It may not be the main factor causing CFS, but it's highly likely that all of us have some toxic load that isn't helping our health.
     
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  5. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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  6. Kina

    Kina

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    You don't have all those answers because nobody does. If you do, could please provide some links.

    We aren't discussing mainstream or Harvard here.
     
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  7. Kina

    Kina

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    That is odd because I took the a quote off that site earlier today. Clicking the link now, it does say it's expired. Very odd.:confused::confused:
     
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  8. Kina

    Kina

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    What does this have to do with the Perrin Technique which is what this thread is about.
     
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  9. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    Wait and see. The results of the work Perrin did in the U.S is not out yet. It is not available.
     
  10. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    Actually we all have wonky spines, especially if you go by the way the person was lying on the x-ray table slightly wonky cos they shuffled on sideways. All you need to stand with a wonky spine is one leg half an inch longer than the other, and that is pretty average. It is a great asset to the osteopathic people because they can always diagnose it when they want to (which is most of the time). It is a sign of intellectual bankruptcy I fear.
     
  11. Kina

    Kina

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    Do you have any links to answer the questions I asked since you say you have all the answers. I can't wait to see his results -- probably more made up fairy stories -- his theory/hypothesis is outright quackery.
     
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  12. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Times two!

    IMG_0233.JPG
     
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  13. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    I have all the answers? hahahahahaha

    What is wrong with people on here? So hostile. Those helping and trying to make a difference are met with scorn.

    Perrins ideas are not quackery, you will see they will be proven. That does not mean you can cure CFS with massage. No one thing will cure it.
     
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  14. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    It looks to me that others are simply asking you to back up what you are saying. This would be true across the board for any theory and it's not a personal attack.

    I'm sorry you take these comments as being hostile. TBH, a lot of us have been ripped off by alternative as well as regular medicine, so you may be picking up some of that skepticism as criticism.

    There's also nothing wrong with stating something that you think may pan out but it's important to let others know this is your opinion. Everyone has a right to an opinion but it's also important to keep in mind that opinions are different than facts.

    Debating an issue can be a helpful learning experience as stated in my signature.
     
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  15. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    I am not saying anything. It is not my work. There is nothing for me to back up whatsoever.
     
  16. slysaint

    slysaint Senior Member

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  17. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    Why did somebody say KDM has an announcement to make?

    Why post anything?

    These forums have become very negative. Extremely sad. Those articles do not report the findings, thus futile. However they prove my point. The Author seems very happy on the second one. All I said is there are publications to come. What the hell do people want?
     
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  18. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member

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    Saying things are negative because it differs from your point of view sounds a lot like the simon weasel school to me (I've kept the spell check in)
     
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  19. Kina

    Kina

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    upload_2017-4-9_19-19-48.png

    So this research is about a way to diagnose ME/CFS. Of course Perrin would have to travel around teaching it to practitioners, follow the money. I don't see this study in any database for research. Just because Perrin is doing this, doesn't mean it is going to be taken seriously.

    Just because you don't like the responses on this thread, doesn't make the forums negative.
     
  20. Learner1

    Learner1 Professional Patient

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    All of this lymph moving stuff is inadequately funded and researched. Period. I've worked with a number of therapists and discussed this with patients who are lobbying for more help on a national level in the US, and there's a limit to what's known.

    It will be years before adequate research ties all of this together. It's very frustrating as a patient.

    Having benefited from several so-called "alternative" treatments based on very sound scientific principles when conventional MDs who are specialists are at a loss to help, I'm very interested in any new ideas that surface. And have learned I could be dead before all the research is in, so I'd rather take a calculated gamble on something new if it makes sense.

    It's valuable to see ideas presented and discussed with all the varied experiences and opinions. There's a lot of research done in stovepipes that's not yet synthesized into whole body of knowledge that works. There aren't any perfect answers, which is why we're all still sick.

    Personally, I've found taking it all in, forming my own opinions and working with an open minded doctor to consider these new modalities can be quite helpful.

    So, I'm very unhappy to see this type of discussion on this forum. The links provided were in no way conclusive. This whole discussion has expanded my view, so I'm thankful for the points everyone's raised, and don't find the criticism useful.

    Continued participation is a good thing, not making people feel bad and driving them away.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
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