The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Dr Neil Harrison: Webinar on neuroimaging (MRI, fMRI, SPECT and PET scans

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by charles shepherd, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. charles shepherd

    charles shepherd Senior Member

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    Webinar 80:

    ME & diagnosis


    In this webinar Dr. Harrison talks about:

    Present and future possibilities and technologies
    What is an MRI and what is an fMRI?
    SPECT- & PET-scans
    Other hopeful possibilities
    Do you expect a breakthrough in research on ME?
     
  2. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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  3. Justin30

    Justin30 Senior Member

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    I am really interested in PET and SPECT and for a portion of ME patients this will show the problems....

    I hope that they maybe able to use this technology for Dyautonomia seen in ME and maybe it might shed some light in that area as well.
     
  4. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Revolting Peasant

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    He was doing so well up to this point but it was disappointing that he got a case of foot in mouth and talked about ME in terms of changes in behaviour:
    There's no doubt that ME does change your behaviour but that isn't the principal issue, rather it's the symptoms that cause your behaviour to change. Today, I'm exhibiting a great deal of sitting-on-the-sofa behaviour because two days ago I did some painting (decorating not artistic) and now I feel like I've been kicked in the head, which nicely illustrates what Harrison is studying. I don't get any sense that he is psychobabbling but it's a lazy use of language that bothers me in a way that talking about 'sickness behaviour' wouldn't have.

    Neil Harrison is involved in the MRC funded neuroimaging study that Mark Edwards announced at the CMRC conference last year. There's a quick overview on the ME Association website here. Note that CCC will be used for patient selection:

     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
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  5. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I was watching this through the filter of concerns that came up on another thread last year about whether he could be a member of the biopsychosocial school in biomedical clothing and, apart from that single use of the word "behaviour", these videos reassured me. There's a point in one of videos where he's asked whether he thinks ME/CFS is psychological and he clearly says he doesn't think so and that the best evidence for that, from his point of view, is the Lloyd (Dubbo?) studies that show that about 20% of people get ME-like symptoms after a range of different infections, including EBV.

    I think a psychobabbler would say that 20% of people get weird fears of exercise (the PACE view is that people might have an acute illness but then they're back to normal except that they're now deconditioned and frightened of activity because they now get a bit more tired and stiff than usual when they try to increase their activity).

    I wondered if he said "behaviour" because that's the consistently observable phenomenon where many other markers have been inconsistent (otherwise we'd have a biomarker by now) or because he was using it as shorthand for "sickness behaviour", as you suggest. Like you, I didn't get any sense that he was talking about behaviour as a result of psychological issues.

    It seemed clear to me from these videos that he thinks there's some sort of chronic inflammatory process going on in the brain, which he's keen to investigate with PET, MRI, fMRI, MR-spectroscopy and so on - and that inflammation causes "sickness behaviour" (an unfortunate term, but a technical term to refer to biology-driven, adaptive changes in animals' behaviour when they're sick).
     
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  6. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    At the first day (yesterday) of the IiME biomedical research colloquium, Dr Harrison was presenting in this section:

    Biomarkers: 2 Imaging
     
  7. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I don't know if transcripts are available of these talks, BTW - they have Dutch subtitles and I wonder if they started off with an English transcript that they then translated. A transcript would be very handy (not suggesting that anyone else here does it - just that if transcripts already exist, it would be good to have them posted by WvP.
     
  8. Justin30

    Justin30 Senior Member

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    I like that he is investigating the brain as is younger......I would personally like to see him in contact with Dr Byron Hyde about PET and SPECT Scans.

    When ME was first described it was primarily Neurological as to why itvwas labelled that way by the WHO.

    Broad definitions and Neuroimaging of people that present with high degrees of Neuro issues should be subjected to these Scans and then repeat on others with different symptom clusters.

    I truly believe ME got burried in CFS along with a batch of other diseases as well as disease stages.
     
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  9. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Revolting Peasant

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    These were well worth a watch. There are seven clips of which the one Charles posted is (currently?) the final one.

    My previous criticism was definitely undeserved. It just goes to show how dangerous it can be to take things out of context.

    It is rather ironic, though, that he is such a fan of Lloyd, who appears to have gone over to the dark side in recent years.
     
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  10. Effi

    Effi Senior Member

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    There's a transcript in Dutch (translation from English spoken text) on the local patient website. I ran it through google translate (that's a bit upside down, isn't it? ;)). Hope it helps?
     
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  11. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Rebel without a biscuit

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    I confess, the more time passes and new information/potential research trials is/are presented the more confused I am as to who represents what view. To some extent at least. Maybe some people themselves are waffling (genuinely) in their own mind. It's pretty clear by now that the BPS people feel the need to concede the point of a biologic trigger that begins the illness. From there it seems one can believe any number of combination biology and mind constructs.

    The idea of sickness behaviour wasn't generated for ME I know but it seems to me that over the time papers have been written on ME by the BPS people the language and wording has gone into what I call stealth mode which makes talking about this illness more difficult because now there is no clear meaning to be derived from the words used.

    There's more to say but I'm struggling right now and that's all I can manage.
     
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  12. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Revolting Peasant

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    Thanks for pointing us to the transcripts. I'm just putting them through the translator and will post them one by one. [Edit: this transcript is now verbatim in English.]

     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
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  13. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Revolting Peasant

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    Note: part of this didn't translate, so I'll come back to edit this when I view the clip. Love the first translation of PEM [as post exertional slump] - I may use it in future. [Transcript now edited to verbatim English]
     
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  14. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Revolting Peasant

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    There isn't a transcript for 77. I may insert one later.

     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
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  15. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    It would be good to provide these to the guy who runs the site so he can post them there - I don't know if his contact details are there.
     
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  16. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Revolting Peasant

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  17. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Revolting Peasant

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    The only missing transcript in Dutch is for 77. Instead there is a Q&A session which I haven't read properly yet but here's a link:
    https://translate.google.co.uk/tran...odule-ME_CVS_docs-viewpub-tid-1-pid-1537.html

    After I've put up the rest of the translations, I'll go back through them all and amend them to a verbatim form. (Might take several days, though).
     
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  18. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Revolting Peasant

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  19. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Revolting Peasant

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  20. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

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    Under Cognitions and Priming, he notes: "Our brains predict a degree of inflammation in the body and compare this to the signal that arrives. If these two signals do not match, it could be felt as fatigue. These are the things we are currently looking to see whether there is in those who experienced the most fatigue or chronic fatigue, a large difference between absolute levels and levels predicted by the brain."

    "Then the question would be whether there is a difference in the way their brains processing inflammatory stimulus."

    He seems to be suggesting pwME are interpreting things that aren't real. Maybe I am expressing that poorly. Regardless, these are potentially loaded observations.

    He leaves me concerned.
     
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