Joshua, you have to be aware that ME/CFS Forums is a special place. People there are not anti science at all, but they have a very strong opinion about what the situation is like and don't like people attacking that point of view. I prefer the atmosphere and culture of this forum here, even though there are pros and cons everywhere. Science should be different, as you said, but is it? I think that's exactly the problem. It looks more and more as if it's not at all a non-personal search for the truth, it's a power struggle, in the case of HGRV. I don't know the motives of the different players, but i can see that it's a fight. Look at the authors of the Levy study. Peterson and the Wisconsin institute seem to have personal issues with the WPI. Then there's the other paper by Coffin. We all know the things he said and did, "leave XMRV behind" etc. And then you have Ruscetti, who probably would beg to differ and who works for the same NCI as Coffin. And on the day of publication, the NCI says on their website XMRV in ME/CFS stems from contamination. And Alter said his sequences can't be explained by Coffin's hypothesis. This is a fight, and we should be aware of it. Because it matters when we try to think about what we should do and who our friends are. If we are naive, it might be dangerous. We should not be paranoid, but not naive either. We have never in history had our fair share of attention as far as science is concerned. What we get in terms of funding is peanuts, compared to other groups. If there then is a group like the WPI, whos mission it is to help us and they report having potentially found a treatable cause for ME/CFS i think it's normal people to some degree become their fans. But i agree, we should not forget to stay objective, nevertheless. And my picture of the football fans was actually not about comparing the scientific process with a football game. Maybe i was not very clear. What i wanted to say is that you have people who are, understanably, very much emotionally involved. XMRV could make all the difference for us. Now we have gotten a beating and it looks to a good part unjust. In such a moment one has to be aware of the feelings of people and should be careful what one says and how one acts on an ME/CFS board. I'm all for objectivity, but this is a ME/CFS board and not a general science board. I'd love to have more scientists here, but i think on a ME/CFS board you should respect the feelings of people with ME/CFS.