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Dr. Mikovits answers my mail: Something important

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by omerbasket, Sep 25, 2011.

  1. omerbasket

    omerbasket Senior Member

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    Because of the thread here yesterday, where I talked about the BWG study not using Trizol or any other preservatives, I asked Dr. Mikovits yesterday questions via email, and she responded. I think that her answer is very important.
    This was my question:
    And this was her answer:
    So, what Dr. Mikovits says is the following:
    1) The purpose of the BWG was to develope a test that would suite testing the blood supply. That means that you cannot use whatever procedures you think are the best, you can use only procedures that would suite testing blood donations for the blood supply.
    2) As opposed to that, the Lipkin study is designed to test whether the association of HGRV to ME/CFS is correct, and there the WPI would be able to do erverything (I think) as they want to.
    RustyJ, Jemal, Bob and 3 others like this.
  2. Andrew

    Andrew Senior Member

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    Good to know. Thanks for posting.
  3. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    thanks very much for the info :Retro smile:
  4. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    Thanks Omer. As I read it, Mikovits appears to dodge the question. The BWG could have answered more questions including the association with ME/CFS. And that is how the anti-WPI camp including CAA is treating it. She provides a political response which indicates to me that she is still in the game.
  5. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Nice to know - thanks omerbasket.
  6. VillageLife

    VillageLife Senior Member

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    Yes I agree but why are vipdx closing?
  7. Bob

    Bob

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    Thanks omer, that's very helpful.

    I haven't looked closely at the procedures of the BWG (or if I have, I can't remember the details), but I always understood that they were looking for assays that would easily and efficiently detect XMRV for mass use on blood samples that had undergone only basic preparation. The blood banks can't afford (in terms of time) to carry out culturing for example, and need the procedures to be as quick as possible, using a simple test that can be used effectively on large supplies of blood. Their mission was never to investigate HGRVs and disease association.

    I didn't know about this, so that is very reasuring to know.

    So they will be using the WPI's methods without any accusations of contamination, because Lipkin is in charge of overseeing that sort of thing, and his team will test for contamination at every stage.

    I would hope that Judy won't now be looking for VP62-related viruses, but will be using assays and methodology that will detect the other HGRV's that she talks about.
    WillowJ likes this.
  8. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    She obviously thinks levels are too low to find XMRV at times (aka macquaqes) but the BWG study was also used to determine the validity of current tests for XMRV....and the WPI's tests obviously did not work out at all. Besides the fact that their PCR results did not agree with the antibody test results or with the culture result (except WPI didn't do culture I think - the test got contaminated). s the two labs using the same test didn't agree with each other..It looks like it failed on all levels.

    Lets say the levels were too low for detection....if that was the only problem the WPI and Ruscetti would have missed some of the positives and but still would have been negative for healthy controls - that would have said something if that happened - but they found as much XMRV in the healthy controls as in the CFS patients. So even if their test wasn't strong enough to find XMRV they still have the problem of finding it when its not there.
    Waverunner likes this.
  9. Cort

    Cort Phoenix Rising Founder

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    Are they actually closing or just not offering the XMRV tests. (They are under a different name now)
  10. eric_s

    eric_s Senior Member

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    This is an interesting answer, thanks. It seems to make sense to me that with the aim of this study they would test the blood after it has been treated/stored in the same way as it is done with blood donations. And if they don't add that kind of preservatives there, it would not make sense to add them now.

    But as also has been pointed out the problems of the false positives, WPI and Ruscetti not being in agreement on the same samples, and getting different results for the same sample in the same labs remain.

    As far as i'm concerned, i'm happy for the WPI, Ruscetti, etc. to prove everybody wrong, but i think they now have to prove they are right, before people will believe them.
  11. RustyJ

    RustyJ Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'

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    New commercial structure and move to WPI, I think.
  12. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Villagelife,

    VIP dx was always going to close. The idea was to move VIP dx to the new facilities at Nevada University. VIP dx was talking about this a year ago.

    What I don't know is if and when the new lab at UNEVX will offer testing for XMRV and other HGRV's
    WillowJ likes this.
  13. ixchelkali

    ixchelkali Senior Member

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    Omer, good question and good answer. Thanks to you for asking and to Dr Mikovits for responding. I don't think it quite explains finding the negative controls (which they had certified as negative before blinding) positive.

    This study does cast serious doubt on the effectiveness of the WPI's assays, which would affect the results of their 2009 study. But it was a small study and I don't think the verdict is in yet. I'm waiting for the results of Lipkin's study. If they don't successfully differentiate between positive and negative controls in that, then there's no reason to believe in the validity of the association between XMRV and ME/CFS. Then we keep looking for answers.
    WillowJ likes this.
  14. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    now that they know there are problems with the XMRV theory, and the lipkin study is already underway, will they be changing the study design midway? for example, will they now be looking for other HGRV's also?
  15. Bob

    Bob

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    I think it's quite probable.

    Judy has known a lot more than we know, for a long time, and I believe that Lipkin is willing to do whatever it takes to make the project work.

    I get the impression that he's genuinely interested in the science, and not the politics.

    So they would have had plenty of time to design the study, and make changes.

    We have been told that Mikovits has recently said that she is 100% happy with the methodology.
    WillowJ likes this.
  16. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Dr Mikovits stopped talking about XMRV after the Lo paper. She started talking about XMRVs and HGRVs so she abandoned the idea that there was one virus a while back now. VIP dx changed their XMRV test to include

    "Serology Assay: detects antibodies to Human Gamma Retroviruses that include XMRV and other
    Human MLV-related viruses"

    Over a year ago

    I don't know though how the whole Silverman screwup is going to change the study now of course.
  17. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Er, what is this "screw up" regarding Silverman, but haven't seen the actuall item/issue itself? (must have missed it, but then again, have had pretty bad week or so)
    anyone got a link, please? :)
  18. Bob

    Bob

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    You've been away from the forums for a week Silverblade?
    There's been a partial retraction of the Science paper.
    They say that Silverman contaminated his samples, and that he only detected his positive control (which was a VP62 plasmid) in the patient samples, rather than an actual virus.
    This doesn't affect the rest of the paper, so the other sequences that were detected are still valid.

    The consequences of this are as follows:
    VP62 XMRV was not detected in the Science paper, but other HGRV partial sequences were.
    BTW, VP62 is an artificial contruct, cloned from partial sequences, so they now think that VP62 doesn't exist in nature.
    This might possibly explain all of the negative studies because everybody has been searching for a virus that doesn't exist.

    Judy stands by all of her work to date (or the bulk of it).

    But it's very difficult to understand exactly what's going on right now.




    Partial Retraction - letter:
    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2011/09/21/science.1212182.full.pdf

    Partial Retraction - Supporting Online Material:
    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/s....DC1/1212182SilvermanPartialRetractionSOM.pdf

    BWG study - published paper:
    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/early/2011/09/21/science.1213841.full.pdf

    Science Magazine - XMRV article:
    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/333/6050/1694.full.pdf


    (free registration is needed)
  19. Sam Carter

    Sam Carter Guest

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    Silverman detected contamination in the samples sent to him by the WPI -- he is clear that the contamination occurred outside his laboratory.
    Firestormm and Bob like this.
  20. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    but isnt it weird that XMRV is a result of contamination but they are saying the ACTUAL viruses we have are so similar to that one?

    maybe that doesnt make sense..i am all fogged up

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