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Dr Les Simpson...Able to Identify CFS by Blood Cell Shape

Jonathan Edwards

"Gibberish"
Messages
5,256
I'm not overly familiar with either condition but I have seen a few articles along the lines of this one http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/201...ell-us-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-fibromyalgia/ looking into any aspects of commonality between the disorders.

There is some interesting speculation in that article but in general I don't think diabetes and ME have much in common. There might be red cell shape or deformability changes in both but I don't think they could be blamed for having similar effects. Most people with diabetes are unaware of anything wrong in terms of fatigue.
 

Gijs

Senior Member
Messages
690
I have not heard anyone talking about this. It does not seem very plausible at first glance. High viscosity occurs with red cell abnormalities in a variety of conditions but none of them are like ME. The most obvious one is sickle cell disease. Small vessel perfusion problems have been studied by Jill Belch and her group in Dundee and Fluge and Mella have been interested in this so maybe there is something to it, but I think if there was then Dundee would have repeated the findings by now.

Small vessel perfusion problems are studied at this moment by different groups one in the Netherlands, Fluge and Mella and also Dundee. They have found something. :)
 
Messages
15,786
There is some interesting speculation in that article but in general I don't think diabetes and ME have much in common. There might be red cell shape or deformability changes in both but I don't think they could be blamed for having similar effects. Most people with diabetes are unaware of anything wrong in terms of fatigue.
My fiance and I make a good pair to observe. He came down with Type I Diabetes about a year after I came down with ME. The symptoms have absolutely nothing in common, even when his blood sugar was very high at first or when it is too low.
 

Marco

Grrrrrrr!
Messages
2,386
Location
Near Cognac, France
My fiance and I make a good pair to observe. He came down with Type I Diabetes about a year after I came down with ME. The symptoms have absolutely nothing in common, even when his blood sugar was very high at first or when it is too low.

Your fiancee may be one of the lucky ones. Even the suggested treatments have a familar ring :

Chronic fatigue is highly prevalent and clinically relevant in DM1. Its significant relationship with cognitive-behavioral variables and weak association with blood glucose levels suggests that behavioral interventions could be helpful in managing chronic fatigue in DM1.

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/early/2013/08/13/dc13-0515.short
 

Jonathan Edwards

"Gibberish"
Messages
5,256
Small vessel perfusion problems are studied at this moment by different groups one in the Netherlands, Fluge and Mella and also Dundee. They have found something. :)

Yes, they have found an abnormality of flow mediated dilatation, but not I think of red cell rheology?
 

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
Yeah, but that's just according to a bunch of Dutch psychobabblers. They think every disease contains psychogenic chronic fatigue, and it's their divine duty to cure the world of it :rolleyes:

They're trying to expand into a variety of other diseases. It's a disturbing development. But I think it will ultimately lead to people questioning their research methods that never fail to find a benefit.
 

MadeleineKM

Senior Member
Messages
205
I have major blood flow issues and struggle to get air. Feets,hands and parts of my face randomly turn dark blue and gets ice cold. Some place on my feet this has happen so often that the area is without feeling anymore. In the microscope the bloodcells wasnt floating like they should do and they just clumped together. I think the man had a point, or was it a lady?
 

gregh286

Senior Member
Messages
975
Location
Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
I got my blood microscoped several times, almost none of the bloodcells where healthy shaped. Had ME for 20 years

Totally bizarre to me.this area of research appears grossly overlooked.
I must be missing something.
Holy shit we split the atom 100 years ago...yet we seem oblvious to
I have major blood flow issues and struggle to get air. Feets,hands and parts of my face randomly turn dark blue and gets ice cold. Some place on my feet this has happen so often that the area is without feeling anymore. In the microscope the bloodcells wasnt floating like they should do and they just clumped together. I think the man had a point, or was it a lady?

Did you get a treatment plan to alleviate the clumping?
He was a he.:)
Yea many of us get cold and numb extremeties and loss of facial pallor....ashen faced.
 

MadeleineKM

Senior Member
Messages
205
No treatment plan. Now I am a pasient with Kenny de Meirleir and hope to get better, he know about the blood cells and my veins that contracts. Or as the hospital said, they are way to small. Very common for ME pasients I think :)
 

adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
As I said earlier, piracetam is quite effective for these blood flow problems :

Arzneimittelforschung. 1993 May;43(5):526-35.
Treatment of the Raynaud's phenomenon with piracetam.
Moriau M1, Lavenne-Pardonge E, Crasborn L, von Frenckell R, Col-Debeys C.
Author information

Abstract
Piracetam (Nootropil, CAS 7491-74-9) has been investigated in the treatment of primary and secondary Raynaud's phenomenon in three sequential and complementary studies. The first study in 20 patients with primary Raynaud's phenomenon, utilising clinical and ultrasound examination, capillaroscopy and laboratory tests established a daily dose of 8 g as most effective. The second study in 58 patients (47 primary, 11 secondary) confirmed the therapeutic efficacy of piracetam in both primary and secondary Raynaud's phenomenon. The third study, of crossover design, in 30 patients with severe Raynaud's syndrome, examined various agents given singly or in combination. The results not only confirmed the efficacy of piracetam but in addition allowed comparison of the efficacy of the principal therapeutic agents or regimens used in the treatment of Raynaud's syndrome and the formulation of a list of these therapies in decreasing order of efficacy, thus: piracetam 4 g/d + buflomedil 600 mg/d; piracetam 8 g/d; buflomedil 600 mg/d; piracetam 4 g/d + acetylsalicylic acid 100 mg/d; pentoxifylline 1200 mg/d; calcium antagonists; ketanserin 120 mg/d. The particular efficacy of 8 g piracetam daily in 3 divided doses at 8-hourly intervals can be attributed to its unique dual mode of action; inhibition of platelet function by inhibition of thromboxane A2 synthetase or antagonism of thromboxane A2 and increased formation of prostaglandin I2, together with a rheological effect involving reduction in blood and plasma viscosity through an increase in cell membrane deformability and a reduction of 30-40% in the plasma concentrations of fibrinogen and von Willebrand's factor. In addition, the administration of piracetam appears to be devoided of adverse effects.

PMID:8328997
 
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MadeleineKM

Senior Member
Messages
205
Interesting read, I have Reynauds Phenomenom diagnose and my blood coagulates a bit slow, about a third over normal time. If this doesent get better after treatment I must check out this with my mainstream doctor. He never mentioned this, only telling that if my infections from the Reynaud dont calm down we might have to remove that bodypart, like a toe
 

gregh286

Senior Member
Messages
975
Location
Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
Hi @MadeleineKM
Kdm patient myself.
Have compared around a dozen kdm results from various cfs patients.
I see 2 distinct groups...lyme and non lyme cfs. Results differ in these 2 groups.
In lyme folk on the armin report the scores.are generally 5 or 6 against 1 or 2 in non lyme.
Folk with high lyme scores i have seen dont have high d lactate values...nor do they get huge increases in blood pressure during vo2 max test suggesting a more normal vessel dilation under exertion