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Dr Les Simpson...Able to Identify CFS by Blood Cell Shape

gregh286

Senior Member
Messages
975
Location
Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
Hi,
I have read quite a lot of articles about this NZ doctor who was able to tell who had CFS and who didnt by looking at blood cell structure,
This was 3 decades ago...just wondering was his work ever followed up after he retired.
Modern Day CFS physicians certainly identify blood flood as major issue,
Seems interesting that here was a guy 30 years ago who could detect CFS and yet it seemed to gain little traction?


http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/diagnosis/redcells.html
http://www.positivehealth.com/artic...-of-blood-flow-and-evening-primrose-oil-in-me
 
Messages
13,774
If it held up under double-blind conditions it would have been amazing and got a lot of attention. My guess is that it didn't.
 
Messages
13,774
Maybe. I don't know anything about this stuff, but it doesn't sound right to me. My guess is that it's BS.
 
Messages
10,157
http://cfidsreport.com/Articles/researchers/lessimpson.htm

Simpson concedes there is much to be learned about blood flow and its effect on CFIDS. He is very modest about the limitations of his research. “I recognized that identifying the cause or causes of the problem could be well beyond my resources.” While he feels red blood cells and blood rheology can explain the distinct features and variablity of the illness, he adds, “Both the immune response and biochemical activity may change the internal environment sufficiently to alter the shape populations of red cells.”

Prohealth has an article -- http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=19045 -- with a case study N=1 -- that supports Simpson's work.

From -- http://www.erythos.com/gibsonenquiry/Docs/BRAME.doc -- Summary of Research Evidence on ME\CFS & Oral Presentations -- Compiled by BRAME for Parliamentary Research Inquiry on ME/CFS.
December 2005 & April 2006
Dr Les Simpson travelled the world to meet with ME patients and give talks to groups. Despite collecting thousands of blood samples from ME sufferers around the world and testing them, he, like many researchers into the pathophysiology of ME, had great difficulty in getting his research published. Now cardiovascualr problems are being more acknowledged in ME his work is being recognised.

BRAME published his paper in our newsletter ME TODAY issue 7 in March 1998, a copy of which has been sent for inquiry, please do try to read this paper.

• In his research over the past decade, Dr Simpson has found that more than 80% of ME patients have changed red blood cell shape population
• His earlier published work with ME patients showed altered blood rheology and subsequent tests using scanning electron microscopy of immediately fixed blood samples, which provided a basis for understanding the poor blood filterability.
• The blood of ME patients contains higher than usual proportions of one or other of the different cell shapes, notably increased percentages of cup transformed cells (stomatocytes), which are considered as a ‘marker’ for ‘acute ‘ ME, however these may persist for some years.
• Data presented at the Cambridge Symposium in 1990 also showed that increased cup forms was the most common change, but it also showed that a smaller number of both sexes had increased cells with altered margins. Increase percentages of these cells, or of flat cells or cells with surface changes are markers for ‘chronic’ ME.
• Impaired capillary blood flow results in inadequate rates of delivery of oxygen and nutrient substrates, having the greatest adverse effect on the tissues with great metabolic activity and high demand for substrates, eg muscles and glands
• Nervous tissue is particularly sensitive to oxygen deprivation – the brain has no capacity to store oxygen and can store only a minuscule amount of glucose. Normal brain function is dependent on normal rates of capillary blood flow to deliver these metabolites.
• Such observations imply that when reduced cerebral blood flow can be demonstrated brain function must be impaired commensurately.
• While it is claimed that psychological, psychiatric and cognitive problems are features of ME, it seems more likely that such morbidity is due to impaired cerebral blood flow.
• The different cell shapes, and an associated reduction in cell flexibility reduces their capacity to pass through capillaries smaller in diameter than the cell. This slows the flow of blood and increases it viscosity. As a result the oxygen, nutrients and hormones transported in the blood are delivered at a reduced rate and cell exhaustion may occur.
• A percentage of the population has unusually small capillaries that leaves them at risk of developing ME-like symptoms if their red cells become less flexible.
• The most severe symptoms will be associated with tissues and organs containing the smallest capillaries. This could account for different ME patients having a slightly different cluster of symptoms.
• The hypothalamus has an extremely dense capillary bed. Decreased blood flow to this part of the brain would account for the cognitive problems, sleep disturbances and emotional lability experiences by people with ME.
• The changes in red blood cell shapes correlate to physical and emotional stresses experienced by the patient, and patients who have improved can relapse following over-exertion.
• Capillary size cannot be changed. The solution is to try to improve the shape and flexibility of the red blood cells so they will flow more easily through the capillaries.


Dr Simpson suggests some possible treatments (not cures) to help patients improve.

• For those with cup-transformed cells – B12 injections help 50% (why the other 50% do not respond is not known)
• For those with other types of red cell shape change – 70% or more of cases respond to evening primrose oil. The effects of the oil are to increase the blood levels of prostaglandin E1. This hormone has been shown to increase red cell flexibility. Those who do not respond to evening primrose oil should explore the effects of fish oil rich in omega-3 fatty acids. These fatty acids improve red cell flexibility by a different mechanism to that of evening primrose oil. The suggested dose is 2 x 1000 mg capsules with food 3 times daily
 

leela

Senior Member
Messages
3,290
This makes perfect sense to me, since from the beginning MCV always shows macrocytic anemia (b12-deficient enlargement/misshaping of the RBCs). However B12 injections never changed this, possibly due to not taking folate with it.
 

gregh286

Senior Member
Messages
975
Location
Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
helps explain why nitrates are successful with many.
in my case and many other certainly alcohol does the trick too. (vasodilation and temporary blood thining)

mishaped RBC combined with viscosity issues....is it a recipe for disaster.?
RBC traffic jams :)
Certainly can explain fluctuations as RBC are produced in high volumes continuosly......dynamic nature of human body means always fluctuation in blood flow......akin to fluctuations in Blood pressure, heart rate, body temp. etc.
Tingling, numbness and coldness in extremities related to circulation.
Also, many report "weak pulse" in crash....low cardiac output.
 

out2lunch

Senior Member
Messages
204
If blood viscosity is a problem in ME, then piracetam or pentoxifylline should work well.
For me, none of the OTC blood thinners worked. The only thing that's worked in me is heparin, which I inject daily in low doses.

Because heparin is a biofilm buster, I'm not sure thinned blood is the only mechanism in play here. Other researchers have focused on biofilm in the capillary bed, generated by antigens hiding underneath. Perhaps this is the cause of misshapen blood cells that Dr Simpson identified? Antigens in bone marrow, altering the very nature of the RBC? And producing biofilm in the capillary bed which functionally narrows it?

I think he was onto something significant here. But unless the causative factor can be identified, I don't know how important this finding will remain. Treating the symptoms isn't enough anymore. We need to find the cause and treat it.
 

ukxmrv

Senior Member
Messages
4,413
Location
London
I met Dr Simpson when he came to talk to a local ME group in London. He's a lovely man. Think one of the other support group leaders still corresponds with him. He's probably retired now.
Dr Simpson worked with Prof Murdoch and others on the Tapanui Flu outbreak inNew Zealand.
They could only get a pittance in funding to investigate these patients. The local health authority was dead against it.
 

gregh286

Senior Member
Messages
975
Location
Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
For me, none of the OTC blood thinners worked. The only thing that's worked in me is heparin, which I inject daily in low doses.

Because heparin is a biofilm buster, I'm not sure thinned blood is the only mechanism in play here. Other researchers have focused on biofilm in the capillary bed, generated by antigens hiding underneath. Perhaps this is the cause of misshapen blood cells that Dr Simpson identified? Antigens in bone marrow, altering the very nature of the RBC? And producing biofilm in the capillary bed which functionally narrows it?

I think he was onto something significant here. But unless the causative factor can be identified, I don't know how important this finding will remain. Treating the symptoms isn't enough anymore. We need to find the cause and treat it.

For sure an underlying pathogen is primary trigger for the RBC mishape, but I would be happy to treat symptoms for now until the medical brains can identify root trigger.
Thats exactly what I am trying to do now is beat down the pathogen with abx and cowden protocol....supported with RBC supporting supplements....B12/Folate/P5P/Niacin/Echinea for production and Evening P.Oil/Omega 3 for RBC shape regulation as outlined by dr.simpson.
For sure we need to find cause and treat it....but at this minute in time....nobody really knows what causes the PEM/VO2 Max/awful aerobic capacity.....this goes someway to explain the mechanism behind the energy drought.
 

Richard7

Senior Member
Messages
772
Location
Australia
After couple of months back I read some of the info on Les Simpson and started taking EPO and cod liver oil. I thought it might apply to me because my peripheral O2% as measured by a blood oximeter was very low 88-94 on the day in question and was very different from finger to finger. Today the O2% is still low, 93-95, but it is not as low and the variability has gone down.

I also have issues with POTS, and am a person not a testube so other things could be going on
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
This is a really old debate. I participated in the early debates on this topic. Long, long ago now.Like many avenues of research it seems it has not gone very far.

I would also advise being very cautious with EPO as it can also trigger relapse or severe side effects.
 

Richard7

Senior Member
Messages
772
Location
Australia
I should add, my energy has been down for the last 6 weeks or so. I had put it down to some sort of virus, as this change has been accompanied by an increase in loose stools but they are right there on the EPO side effect list.
 

beaker

ME/cfs 1986
Messages
773
Location
USA
This is a really old debate. I participated in the early debates on this topic. Long, long ago now.Like many avenues of research it seems it has not gone very far.

I would also advise being very cautious with EPO as it can also trigger relapse or severe side effects.
I know Bell and cheney were very interested in this back in the day and may of even had some patients evaluated and irregularities were found in their patients. gee it's so long ago.
Too bad it never went anywhere, but they liked it and accepted this study back in the day.