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Dr. John Martin and CFS question

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by xrayspex, Aug 5, 2010.

  1. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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    I am just starting to look into his website.....so I am confused, not just because I am not a scientist, but he seems to hit on all of the cfs' population most pressing questions and instead of fretting about it he seems to feel confident that he has discovered a number of stealth viruses that could cause cfs or other health problems. It is amazing, he takes it farther imho than Peterson or Cheney or even WPI perhaps in that he has done the research and isn't limiting himself to just "cfs" per se.

    So what I am confused about, is if he figured this out 20 yrs ago, what a lot of us still kick around he already knows, and some if it like the SV40 thing, I don't think there is any dispute that exists--yet, I never heard of it til this summer and no one ever suggests testing for hhv6 or htlv to rule out.....all the multitude of physical, mental, behavioral etc sort of problems we see nowadays, a lot of it could be related to stealth viruses, Martin got that, and is doing the ongoing work. Has he gotten govmt funding? If a lot of it is factual why have I been clowning around trying to research it as a lay person when people in physicians offices should have been educating me and everyone and suggesting tests or at least more understanding.

    Seems like a lot of the puzzles are already known, I went to the HHV6 research site too, seems to me a lot of the stuff already discoverd and known could explain various cfs or other health issues, but that message hadnt been clearly conveyed to me at these boards and most definitely not from my phycians, even the well meaning ones.

    Seems to me some of us should write a kickass eye grabbing barnes and noble/oprah type book and lay it out, yea its known, not speculation, sv40 from polio vax has killed a few kids etc yea htlv or hsv6 could be kicking your ass etc if your life isn't working maybe you need to rule these out.

    Sorry if my diatribe is crude because of my lack of science education but is Martin known to be a crank or what is the dealio? Its not just him but he exemplifies and ties together everything I have been suspecting from my own research over the years, but it isnt bogus, the science he does?

    http://www.ccid.org/addviruses/sv40.htm
     
  2. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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  3. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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    Sounds like a J. Hopkins doc confirmed some of his stuff in 90s, one cfs person had scmv ( new one to me too) from martins website on the case:

    Viral DNA was isolated and cloned. A region of sequence homology to African green monkey simian cytomegalovirus (SCMV) was noted in early 1994 and reported to CDC. Dr. Gary Hayward of Johns Hopkins University submitted additional sequence data on SCMV to GenBank in December 1994. From his sequence data, it was unequivocal that the CFS patient's virus had originated from SCMV. This conclusion was reported to FDA in March of 1995.

    (from zoologix)
    Viral Particle: Sugarcane mosaic virus (SCMV), formerly called Maize dwarf mosaic virus-B (MDMV-B), is a potyvirus. The virus has a flexible filamentary particle about 750 nm long and contains a single strand of RNA.
    Simian cytomegalovirus (SCMV) was first described in 1957 as one of seven viruses isolated from the African green monkey (Cercopithecus aethiops). SCMV, also known as simian agent 6 (SA6) at that time, was first recovered from primary African green monkey kidney cell (AGMK) cultures, giving rise to foci of rounded swollen cells after 2 weeks in culture. Examining the prevalence of SCMV in primary AGMK cells obtained from commercial suppliers indicated that more than 50% of these cultures were positive for the presence of the virus. Neutralizing antibodies to SCMV were found in more than 95% of African green monkey sera studied. Infection of African green monkeys by SCMV appears to be widespread.
    The use of primary rhesus macaque (Macaca mulatta) kidney cultures for the production of poliovirus vaccines during the 1950s led to the identification of simian virus 40 (SV40). It was subsequently confirmed that SV40 was a common contaminant of Rhesus monkey culture. Due to the oncogenicity associated with SV40, attempts were made to switch poliovirus vaccine production from rhesus macaque kidney cultures, to ones prepared from African green monkeys. Thus, to ensure a SCMV-free AGMK culture is vital to safe use of poliovirus vaccines.
    Although virus isolation can be used to diagnose SCMV infection, a long incubation period is required to obtain results. Viral culture also increases the potential risk of laboratory personnel contacting this virus. Furthermore, viral culture is less sensitive, reliable and specific than newer polymerase chain reaction (PCR)-based techniques.
    SCMV detection by PCR is the most rapid, sensitive and specific method for the diagnosis of this infection.


    http://www.zoologix.com/primate/Datasheets/SimianCytomegalovirus.htm

    sounds like scmv is risky for the tech to test for....
     
  4. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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    fun conversations with myself here
    ok, so I see Ncfids dissed him, scathing article in last 10 years
    well, I dont put all my eggs in one basket, with this political hotbed......not with martin nor ncif....
     
  5. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    There was a mixed response from patients at the time. I was never tested as too unwell to get a sample to him. Complaints over the reliability of him and the test. He came across as a maverick. However, at the time I read all that I could and listened to his patients.

    Dr Martin also failed to demonstrate the reliability of his test in the some of the same double blind studies as Dr Fetreitas. Patients still supported him at the time and still got tests from him. He had an old website and then even a internet group was set up.

    Then total silence, patients tried to contact him and he didn't reply. We asked amoung ourselves what happened to him and there were no ansas.

    The SV40 stuff was well discussed in patient forums and groups at the time.

    Theories about retroviral ME and CFS seemed to go out of fashion. For those of who followed it, we got buried, ignored and then hostility built up in the groups and organisations towards us and the doctors we followed.
     
  6. birddog

    birddog

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    I tested positive for Dr. Martin's stealth pathogen and I am XMRV+........ I was told that Martin and DeFetreitas were both treated the same by the powers to be..... I see history repeating it self ....... please, support WPI and keep them working for us.
    Birddog
     
  7. xrayspex

    xrayspex Senior Member

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    interesting
    I didnt catch on that I might be under the cfs/me umbrella really til more recently, was chasing other possibilities more in the 90s.
    birddog, did he recommend a treatment plan? was he super expensive, seems that might have been one concern, but that doesnt put Cheney out of business.
     
  8. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

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    Dr. Martin is something of a problem, he was sure the cause was spuma virus at one time. He has turned up a number of things which should be investigated, but he has failed to clarify the situation, in my non-expert opinion. This has hurt the field because it is far too easy to commit to a single, easily-falsified hypothesis about this complex subject. There are plenty of people looking to falsify any hypothesis of organic illness. What has been missing is the willingness to tease out leads from confusing results. He has been wrong in a several instances, but he has turned up anomalies. Anomalies alone are not enough.


    I am now wondering if his results fit in with the idea that XMRV causes recombination of other viruses.

    You can look all over the field and find associations with known viruses which suggest causality in a limited number of cases. In almost every case, you see a known virus behaving in an uncharacteristic way in a given study. If those viruses had picked up genes from other pathenogens, or if they were interacting with an unknown pathogen that escaped detection, this would be understandable.
     
  9. paddygirl

    paddygirl Senior Member

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    :Retro smile:
    Have a look at the thread on the WPI interview on Radio KUNR started by Creekfest today.

    Uplifting stuff!
    :Retro smile:
     

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