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Dr. Garth Nicolson on HGV

Discussion in 'XMRV Testing, Treatment and Transmission' started by mojoey, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. mojoey

    mojoey Senior Member

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    Reposted from Prohealth http://www.prohealth.com/blog/userPosts.cfm?thisUser=DrNicolson. I hope that's ok:


    richvank - The retroviruses

    Will you please comment on the newly discovered MLV-related retroviruses in CFS patients, and what relationship they might have to the other infectious pathogens you have found in CFS.
    Thanks.
    Rich Van Konynenburg

    Reply:

    Regarding eradication:


  2. Rrrr

    Rrrr Senior Member

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    thank you for posting this. did he have any thoughts on treatments? what did he recommend for "modulating immune response by suppressing virues"?
  3. Francelle

    Francelle Senior Member

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    This is why patients who have these other infections, such as bacterial infections, benefit from their specific treatment in the absence of anti-viral treatment. This would not occur if the symptoms were entirely caused by a retrovirus. Thus I predict that anti-retrovirus treatment will not eliminate most symptoms in CFS patients, because they are more likely caused by other infections.” Garth Nicholson

    Altho’ I don’t know my XMRV/HGV status, I have to say that a prolonged course of Azithromycin and shorter terms of other A/B’s have helped to abate quite a number of my distressing symptoms. However the underlying condition of M.E./FMS has remained. For instance none of the neurological symptoms were helped in the slightest.

    So I agree with Garth Nicholson that where there are other co-morbid infections they need to be treated separately. However the inference that treating the retrovirus where it exists will not eliminate other specific M.E./FMS symptoms remains puzzling.
  4. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    "if the retrovirus has the ability to be incorporated into host DNA..."

    why does he say this? dont all retroviruses have this ability?
  5. mojoey

    mojoey Senior Member

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    Dr. Nicolson doesn't seem to be a retrovirus expert. His work has mainly centered around lipid therapy and mycoplasma, esp myco fermantans in GWI. The fact that he also said:

    "We and others found that treatment of the cohort of GWI that have M. fermentans with doxycycline lead to complete recovery in most patients."

    probably lends to some bias on how effective treating secondary infections would be in CFS patients
  6. redo

    redo Senior Member

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    "HHV6 and other bacteria and viruses that actually cause most CFS symptoms. This is why patients who have these other infections, such as bacterial infections, benefit from their specific treatment in the absence of anti-viral treatment. This would not occur if the symptoms were entirely caused by a retrovirus"

    Yes. I agree totally with that one. I've got a blog post about it. Different words, but same points.

    And, as you say mojoey, the last statement you quoted sounds like an overstatement. If he said considerable improvement, I would have agreed, but complete recovery is stretching it...

    And -- I don't think he should be calling the virus HGV. Sounds too much like another retrovirus. HGRV is a better name.

    Thanks for posting mojoey.
  7. mojoey

    mojoey Senior Member

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    I think with ME/CFS we have too many problems with too many systems that making any deductions about cause based on immediate improvement of symptoms is meaningless. Some patients have benefited from antiviral therapy for HHV-6, EBV, CMV, etc but many have not. In fact one of the few treatments that has improved my symptoms has been cortef, so according to Dr. Nicolson's logic, adrenal burnout might be primarily responsible for my condition, yet just about everyone agrees this is a downstream event.

    It's possible treating this retrovirus may not cure all of our symptoms, but the more important question is: does treating the retrovirus remove the conditions that prevent us from recovering? If after treating a retro for 1 year, I don't feel much better but then re-do a 21-day course of valcyte and recover (where a 1-yr course of valcyte in the past didn't do much), then clearly logic would suggest the retro is the lynchpin.
  8. redo

    redo Senior Member

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    Interesting. Can you share which adrenal hormone replacement you went for?
  9. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    I believe that all known retroviruses can be incorporated. But I think much less is known about XMRV.
  10. Francelle

    Francelle Senior Member

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    Cortef or Hydrocortisone is a cortisol replacement - therefore a corticosteroid.
  11. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    Seems we all agree that treating the opportunistic infections relieves some degree of symptoms and therefore the retrovirus can't be the direct cause of our symptoms. I got tremendous relief treating CMV, so I do agree. But I also believe based on my own experience that there is a puppetmaster, and since xmrv is found in pwc's at a much higher percentage than the others bugs, I continue to believe it to be the great oz.

    I believe that if I tip toe around the xmrv, and not prod it to flare up, I may not relapse the CMV. But that's not gonna work for a long term solution. A long term solution will require dealing with xmrv as well.

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