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Dr. Chia Produces New Form of Oxymatrine

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by Cort, Jul 29, 2009.

  1. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    I don't see any other newer threads on this topic, so I'll give it a try here. I am interested in trying Oxymatrine, but I would like to try it alone without other combined immune changing ingredients like that seen in Equilibrant. Since there is concern over quality of the Oxmatrine (Sophora root) alone, does anyone know of a reliable source. From what I can see, Dr Chia only has the Equilibrant, and has no recommendation for Oxymatrine alone.
  2. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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  3. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Cloud
    why don't you like the other ingredients in equilibrant?
  4. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    Thanks for the links Timaca.....I'll check out your story.

    Aquariusgirl....If I have a bad reaction to a multiple herb supplement like that, I wouldn't know which herb to attribute it to. I like to add one thing at a time and see how I do with it before adding the next. Since I'm primarily interested in the Oxymatrine, I would like to see if I can tolerate that first. If I like it, maybe next time I could go with the Equilibrant.
  5. consuegra

    consuegra Senior Member

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    I am interested in Oxymatrine. My daughter started on Equilibrant yesterday - at 1/2 pill. My daughter, through ARUP, has consistently high titers (1:640) to Coxsackie B4 and less consistent high titers to Coxsackie B2 (1:640, 1:320) and intermittently elevated B3, B5. Dr. Chia would say that this is "significant". Dr. Enlander would say the same thing. Not all CFS/ME patients have elevated Coxsackie titers, particularly so consistently over four years.

    Chris

    http://cfspatientadvocate.blogspot.com
  6. fairlight

    fairlight

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    Cloud-I've been taking oxymatrine from BeVigour in Irvine, Ca. They call it Agascoli. I also have Equilibrant but like the oxymatrine from BeVigour. I have positive labs for coxsackie B4, B5 and Echovirus 7. Also have positive stomach biopsy results for coxsackie. Hope this helps. The BeVigour oxymatrine is 100 mgs. oxymatrine 90 capsules.

    I've read that pleconaril can also help. I'm going to try to get an rx for it from my doc.
  7. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    Thanks Fairlight.....very helpful since there seem to be so few good sources for straight oxymatrine. I don't recall ever being tested for coxsackie, but Dr Peterson told me enteroviruses were a major part of my problem.....so maybe he did test for that. I usually get copies of all my records, but I did so much testing with him that I'm sure there is volumes I haven't seen. Were your Coxsackie & Echovirus tests blood or GI (stool or biopsy)?
  8. fairlight

    fairlight

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    Hi Cloud-I'm glad this information is helpful to you. Did you check out BeVigour's website? If you order they send it quickly. My tests were blood and stomach biops, both positive

    I think that Dr. Chia has treated some of his coxsackie positive patients with interferon, but the side efects can be very bad. I read someplace that there's now a very low dose of interferon available. I thin it is just one drop under the tongue. It's also in clinical trials for colds and flu.

    The entervirus makes sense fo rme because I have a lot of stomach problems. I just had a lot of tests done for stomach issues and hopefully will get my results on Tues.

    Let me know if you get any oxy and how you do on it. Good luck!
  9. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    Any info on herxing on Oxymatrine? 2 days in, I'm sick....not autoimmune stuff. More like viral flare or herxing.
  10. jackie

    jackie Senior Member

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    Hi cloud...what is your dosage? (oxy not "equilibrant", right?) in the "old days" (or "first days", i should say) you generally started very slow...you would feel an incease in symptoms (what WAS a problem BEFORE became a bigger problem!)...you waited (staying on that dosage)...and in a period of time (unspecified) you would begin to feel better (bad symptoms would subside) and THATS about when you would titrate up - slowly...and so on and so on!

    I dont think that method is being used as much now. people can become very ill...and are unable to tolerate titrating up too quickly...and yet some are ok! and manage to reach the full dosage (5-6 per day in some cases) dont know what the difference is, why some can and others cant

    the maxim is the same for both drugs...start LOW, go SLOW..stay at the same dose for awhile to see how you tolerate it. cant remember what the starting dose was for my oxy from kowloon probably 1/2 cap...i do know that with equilibrant...start at 1/2 also (or better yet 1/4!) this is not something that can be rushed. take care and good luck...jackie (can you hold out and contact chia and discuss by phone?)
  11. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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  12. cfs since 1998

    cfs since 1998 *****

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    Hi Cloud. Which source did you end up deciding to purchase Oxymatrine from? What dosage are you taking? I am interesting in trying it but, like you, don't really want the extra stuff.

    I wouldn't be surprised if you did if it works as well as Dr. Chia et. al. say it does. When I herx/have a viral flare I get bad headaches/inflamed brain feeling, pain in my cervical spine and brainstem, and bad TMJ issues. What are your symptoms?
  13. Jenny

    Jenny Senior Member

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    Does anyone know whether Dr Chia is still saying that oxymatrine shouldn't be used if you have autoimmune problems? And are these autoimmune problems illness like lupus or RA or is he just talking about a tendency to autoimmunity?

    Jenny
  14. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    Hi Jackie, Thanks for your response. Yes straight Oxy, not Equilibrant. 50mg/day x 2 days. I bought straight oxymatrine in 100mg capsules from BeVigour and took 1/2 capsule daily for 2 days. The symptoms didn't kick up immediately like an obvious reaction to the Oxy....rather they kinda went up and down over 3 days, but worse than I have been in several months.....an obvious reaction to something. There was nothing else new, except kefir which I only get about 1-2 times a month, but I have never had a problem with dairy before. I have grown used to being hyper vigalent of anything new in diet, environment, or lifestyle. I also had no extra stress, physical or mental...besides, that level of stressor doesnt' make me crash that bad these days. I have been consistently improving for the last several months, then Bam...sicker than I had been for 3-4 months. If I were having some kind of infectious relapse, I wouldn't expect it to crash in so suddenly like that. If it is the Oxy, I lean towards herxing more than a drug reaction because it doesn't feel like a drug reaction, and I really believe there is lots to this GI stuff....Whether it's enteroviruses, H2S, Biolfims, or all of the above....Oxy, would likely hit all of it and, having leaky gut, I would get quite toxic with all the die off. That's my rational, maybe I'm thinking too much. I hear ya about staying with it and getting through the symptoms by titrating up the dosage as symptoms decrease, but I stopped because I wasn't sure if people even had these kind of reactions on Oxy. Thanks for answering that question for me. As far as conracting Dr Chia....would they discuss these issues with me not being a patient of his?

    Timaca....Thank you for the link. I'll check it out.

    cfs since 1998......I couldn't say if this particular brand oxy is bad or not....I would guess that my reaction is herxing rather than bad Oxy. Maybe Dr Chia was referring to more than just strength when he said some sources can be bad? It would interesting to try some Equilibrant.
  15. Binky123

    Binky123

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    I recently purchased equillibrant. Will update on how it goes.
  16. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    Thanks Binky.....I hope it helps. I look forward to following your progress.
  17. Lisa K.

    Lisa K.

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    I'm a patient of Dr. Chia too, and have been on Equilibrant for 8 months. Has it helped? I'd have to say yes. However, my titers to EBV and HHV6 are still going up and down. I can feel when I am re-activating and although I get PEM when I do to much, It does not put me in bed for days. I just have to set aside some time to rest. When looking at the past 5 years of my life, this is the best health I've been in. There are many factors I think, but I do think the Oxy is helping.

    With the Oxymatrine, the key is to increase your dosing VERY slowly (1/2 a pill at a time). Headaches (which I should say are not horrible, just annoying) are a common side effect for me when I first add more to my dose. But, it goes away after a day. My main concern is how this treatment will affect XMRV. Will it create a super-virus? I hope to see him in the fall for a follow up, so if he shares any info, I will let you know.

    I heard that he may have another form of Oxy without the additional supplement herbs, and that there may be less side effects. Does anyone know if this is true? Again, when I order my next 3months, I will let you know. :)
  18. silicon

    silicon Senior Member

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    Lisa,

    It’s great that the oxymatrine seems to be working for you! I know it can sometimes be very difficult to unravel the cause of some of our health improvements.

    I would think that if somehow the oxymatrine is strengthening XMRV, then somehow that would have manifested as some sort of health problem…but then again, so little is known about XMRV.

    I was wondering if Dr. Chia did much testing on you to determine if you were a candidate for oxymatrine, or if he thinks it’s just a reasonable treatment to try for CFIDS in general, especially if one has gut-related problems as well.

    I’m thinking of trying some oxymatrine at some point. One concern I have is that I’m also taking a bunch of Chinese herbs already (prescribed and frequently adjusted by my herbalist), and wonder if there would be any interactions. I guess I should ask his opinion at some point. One of the main reasons I take these Chinese herbs is for gut support—an area I’d really like to improve (I’m a little leery of the biofilm-busting approach, athough it does also have some appeal).

    I also echo Jenny’s concern about whether oxymatrine is not advised when there are autoimmune issues. I once tested positive for Hashimoto’s, but I don’t know if this is the type of autoimmune condition that Dr. Chia is concerned about.

    For what it’s worth, I see that iherb sells PhytoCort--a proprietary blend of reishi extract, shrubby sophora root extract (this is oxymatrine, I believe), chinese licorice root extract and noni fruit extract. Unfortunately, it’s not clear how much sophora root extract is in each capsule.

    http://www.iherb.com/Allergy-Research-Group-Nutricology-PhytoCort-120-Veggie-Caps/7783?at=0
  19. Timaca

    Timaca Senior Member

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    I did have high antibody titers to Coxsackie B3, B4 and B5, through testing at ARUP lab. see: http://www.enterovirusfoundation.org/chronicinfections.shtml

    Those antibody titers have dropped while on oxymatrine, and I've felt better. see: http://hhv6foundation.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=antiviral&action=display&thread=200

    I do take the oxymatrine from China. There is a brand available from White Tiger in the states. Info on it can be found in the HHV-6 thread posted above. You will need to sign in to read the posts.

    Best, Timaca
  20. Cloud

    Cloud Guest

    Lisa....Thanks for posting on your experiences. Also, did you mean a new form of Oxy since Equilibrant?

    Sillicon....thank you for posting your experiences too. What type of "Biofilm busting" are you familiar with? The Oxy.....or other herbs/meds as well?

    Thanks everyone

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