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Dr. Andrew Wakefield is suing Brian Deer and BMJ's Fiona Godlee for defamation..

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by TessDeco, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

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    Firestormm,

    You do realise that amendment is almost certainly in light of my email to them (as above) yesterday, don't you? You know,when I highlighted the problem? The one you think I am being picky on?
    Wildcat likes this.
  2. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

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    Of course, we haven't even began to cover the problems with the sentence " "has now been utterly disproved" in the opinion of "respectable medical opinion" (slaps palm to forehead). A judge and a QC -who obviously are NOT scientists, but in truth have no intellectual excuse to say such things- have both come out with basic nonsense.

    There has been NO 'disproof' of any possible link between autism and MMR vaccine. There's lots of conflicting information, dead ends, unsubstantiated claims, mud-slinging, ideological positions, and attacks on scientists who have positive findings on areas around MMR and neurological damage (and parents of children who MIGHT have been damaged by MMR, parent understandably concerned about vaccine safety or risk, and/or who understand the problems with the way this topic has played out). There is a lot of confusion and attempts to prevent finding out whether there is a link, one way or the other, in good faith and rational scientific process, and a lot of "the science is done" comments which should scare the bejabers out of anyone who understands scientific process and is genuinely concerned to see it done correctly, free from ideological interventions.

    Just like the possible retroviral link with ME/CFS, funnily enough!

    And 'utterly' is an emotive, unscientific word, used to persuade people to think a certain way, or comfort the utterer of the word. Either way, has no place in value-free scientific discourse (not that we see much objective science done nowadays, at least not in medicine!).

    But, whether it's the judge who thinks there is such a thing as single 'medical opinion' and that 'opinion' suffices for 'disproof' (contrary to Popperian principle and therefore a comment which should have science methodologists slapping their palms to their foreheads too), and the QC was too ignorant/frightened to correct him, or whether the journalist has problems with sentence construction (in the opinion of an opinion?), the whole section doesn't actually support the notion which I think you, Firestormm, were trying to promote - namely, an appeal to authority (and an irrational one at that - the judge and QC have no special knowledge here) to persuade thread readers that any link between MMR vaccine and autism had been disproved. I say that because, as Natasa has said, what you focused upon was exactly that, not on the various comments that say otherwise. When I showed the sentence you were relying on for that (and the original poster of the leftbrainrightbrain entry) was nonsense, what should have been a thank-you from yourself to me for spotting the problem, was instead turned into a snark against me. Hence my cognitive dissonance comment.
    Wildcat likes this.
  3. Glynis Steele

    Glynis Steele Senior Member

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    This is so true for us here personally. I know that Jazzie has something that causes her autistic traits. I know it is related to carbohydrates, possibly through gut bacterial fermentation. I know she responds weel to abx. But will the GI do any investigations? Not a hope in hell.
  4. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    I don't think you were the only one Angela (LBRB asked for some clarity ahead of you I believe though I can't get their website up at the moment). Still, at least it's clearer now for those that didn't get it. Phew!
  5. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

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    I don't see any requests for clarity on that site ahead of me at the moment. Unless you can identify that, I think we have to acknowledge it was most likely my email to the Guardian that brought attention to the problem. Not that it matters so much, except your response to me was odd and hostile from the beginning.
    Wildcat and currer like this.
  6. lookinglass

    lookinglass

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    http://www.facebook.com/#!/CryShame.JWS Message to supporters from JWS. The Appeal is now over.

    So now as Janette says, its a waiting game. Could be a long wait as the Judge has a lot of reading to get through.
  7. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    GMC dealing with a task beyond it - clearly is.
  8. lookinglass

    lookinglass

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    John Stone on AgeofAutism states that the verdict is due in tomorrow Wednesday 7th March. It must have very important ramifications whatever his verdict. If the verdict is to exonerate him- which I believe is the right one, I shall cheer loudly. If not there is a possibility for Walker Smith to appeal further but I cannot see how he could, it eats money.
  9. lookinglass

    lookinglass

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    wwwAgeofAutism.com

    Finally a day to celebrate a vistory for truth, integrity and Justice. Prof John Walker Smith fully exonerated. Judge Mitten at High Court finds GMCs conclusion wrong and their reasonings inadequate.
    ukxmrv, Lou and Athene like this.
  10. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    Thanks for this post, lookingglass.
    Hurray!!!

    Except, why is this reported only in AgeofAutism, when his FALSE condemnation was published in al the national newspapers? It shows how corrupt our mass media is and how unreliable and biased their reporting is.
    ggingues likes this.
  11. lookinglass

    lookinglass

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    Athene it is now headline news in all the UK press. Just Google his name.
    ukxmrv likes this.
  12. Athene

    Athene Never give up

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    Thanks! Good to hear it!
  13. lookinglass

    lookinglass

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    An update needed here I think. Wakefield's case was dismissed last week by a Judge in Texas for Jurisdictional reasons, a technical issue on residency of Wakefield being able to sue a non US citizen. But Wakefield is appealing to a third Court of Appeal and the result should be out within 4 weeks. www.AgeofAutism has good updates. It would be a great pity if Deer and Godlee were never to be brought to court for their allegations. Any court would do, US or UK!! But funding is at the bottom of all court cases and boy does it eat money. Wakefield's insurance would not cover his one attempt to sue Deer in the UK, so it never happened there either, despite Deer's insistence that "it failed"..
  14. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland
    and who turned down Wakefield legal aid request (government aid for court cases) ?
    Why, the half brother of a GSK exec, who'd a thunk it, eh?

    http://www.whale.to/vaccine/mmrjudge.html
  15. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    Who'dve thunk it indeed!

    I believe everything our government wants me to believe.
    Enid likes this.
  16. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    He won't win an appeal. It was well known in advance that jurisdiction would hamper any claim made in Texas. This wasn't a technical issue i.e. a minor thing, either. His counsel should have been better prepared. This is a disaster for all those who contributed to his campaign fund in respect of the fact that is could have been avoided.

    Personally, I would welcome a court case based on the claims made by Wakefield against Deer and Godlee. I would like to see it all aired in court and a ruling made that settles it. It's not going to happen like this though and not in Texas or anywhere else in the USA. Not unless they make a better effort.

    Another colossal waste of money. Still it's good to see AofA finally covering this news. Thanks for the link. I'd better go read what they have to say.

    Humpf: http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/08/...d-district-court-decision-not-unexpected.html

    Double humpf and disbelief: http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/08/...and-lobbies-for-sponsor-of-alison-singer.html
  17. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    "You can't kill an idea"
    at least the idea, the terrible wild idea is out there now, no matter what bullshit they do
    while psyops is much better than it was in Nero's day, and they can certainly weaknen of subvert much better now, the idea is out there, evnetually, it will strangle the bastards
    (throwing folks ot the lions doesn't work as well as inviting someone to join th eboard and publishing the pcitures and their wage icnrease..)

    lets hope it brings the system down, before the system destroys our genome or turns us into zombies! :p (or more like, collapse our immune systems)
  18. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    Not my money they are throwing to the lions Silverblade. I'm sure Wakefield's lawyers are delighted. It was a farce. And if it does get to court the defence will wipe the floor with him. As for AofA's latest spin on the judge and her 'affiliations' what a load of crap. More blood in the water to distract from the essence of the legal dispute. Reminds me of the spin on Walker-Smith's appeal. That was less of a thumbs-up for Wakefield than it was poor preparation and evidence submission as well as consideration of process by the prosecution. Sounds shit doesn't it - legal process? Rule and regulations. That cases can be overturned because of poor preparation and understanding of the process. Shit happens though and Walker-Smith had nought to do with Wakefield though it was never going to be seen as such. Sad really.
  19. currer

    currer Senior Member

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    Disallowing a case on technical isues is a bad thing because it prevents these matters from being brought before the public all the points raised openly, and put on legal record.
    I hope it does go to court precisely because this should be publicly discussed, and we, the public, deserve to hear about these matters, and Dr Wakefield deserves the chance to clear his name from all thie innuendo that has been used against him.

    Yes it is sad that in a "democracy" we cannot get this to court, where it should be discussed .
  20. lookinglass

    lookinglass

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    Firestorm I wouldn't have said either, on information that we have so far, that Wakefield's chances look good. But I read somewhere (sorry can't recall where) that his counsel expected this result, and that part of their defense rested on the supposition that it would then go to appeal. I know next to nothing about the legal game playing that goes on but I wouldn't be surprised either to see the appeal allowed. I have to say I cannot believe that all of his supporters and the whole of his legal team would have recklessly thrown their money blindly down the toilet. It is such an obvious piece of jurisdiction to have expected, surely. I have a feeling the game is being played as it was intended. Wait and see I guess.

    What does encourage me is the growing ground support amongst parents for retaining independant choice when it comes to vaccinations. To give in to the State and lose that freedom of choice would be the beginning of the end for us all. Which is why vaccination will never work. And why they are so scared of Wakefield winning his appeal.
    currer likes this.

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