The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Does your body have a hard time creating antibodies?

Discussion in 'Immunological' started by ebethc, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    do you think that your immune system can be so poor that it can't even create some antibodies? I don't know enough about the mechanisms that create antibodies to know if this is at all viable, but I think this might be true for my body.... Mostly because of #1 & #2... I'm think I'm forgetting some other examples, too.
    1. When I had mono in 2001, I tested negative for mono, but the doctor said that he had seen enough cases of mono to say I had it...
    2. Last Fall I had extensive allergy testing (skin prick and serum) and came up with NO allergies. I know that allergy testing is not 100% reliable, but, NO allergies with all the symptoms of allergies??
    3. I am hypothyroid, and believe I possibly have autoimmune hypoT - but i don't have the antibodies. I have VERY weak adrenals, so that could be the root cause of my hypoT, or it could be my crap immune system or a combo of the two.
     
  2. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    Low total IgG and IgG subclass 1 and 3 deficiencies are somewhat common in ME patients I believe. The lack of allergic response could be due to low IgE possibly. Have you had your immunoglobulin levels measured at all?
     
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  3. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Isn't "Ig" immunoglobulin? Do you mean total Ig, like IgG, IgE, etc combined?? thanks
     
  4. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    Yes, sorry not to be more clear. Have you had your total IgE or total/subclass IgG levels measured?
     
  5. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    I'm not sure.... If I did, it would be in my allergy tests... I'll have to dig it out.. what would that data tell me?
     
  6. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    Immunoglobulin levels represent your circulating antibodies. If your body is having trouble making antibodies as you wondered, then you might expect your immunoglobulin levels to be lower than normal.
     
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  7. melamine

    melamine Senior Member

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    My IgG1 is below normal and my total IgG is in the lower range of normal and has been falling. I haven't had a cold in years but have a chronic upper respiratory infection since an acute one 9 years ago. When I have gotten infections in the past 10 years, they've been pathological and not easily categorized. I've tended to not run a fever with them and my glands didn't swell sufficiently to be as diagnostic as should have been.
     
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  8. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    amazing how one infection can permanently change your health.... I've always had a lot of inflammation (joint pain, sinus problems, fatigue) but since mono in 2001, everything is SO much worse.
     
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  9. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Even if you have good antibodies, if your innate immune system is trashed your still at risk of getting infections.

    My recent example is a good one. Nine months ago i had VZV antibodies tested to see if i would have 'immunity' to shingles as i was considering shingles vaccines etc, as chickenpox was one of my initiating cfs infections, plus i had had chickenpox previously as a kid.

    The antibody test said i had good immunity, 9 months on i got shingles on the side of my head. I actually think a week later i got a second dose along the back of my head and neck line but possible it was along the same nerve route.

    So i would say if one has a crappy innate immune system like low nk function, neutropenia and cd t cell dysfunction such as myself, than theres a risk of these infections still occurring even though one has antibodies. Probably the reason why i need to stay on antivirals to keep ebv/cmv down, could be the reason why some have high antibody titres as their immune system is trying hard to compensate for weak innate immune system like low nk function. This is also why in MY situation i would be very weary of something like rituximab, as i would not only have no antibodies but my innate immune function wouldnt be strong enough to fight any infections?
     
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  10. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Very interesting! I have low NK cells, too, and was contemplating going to Dr Montoya (if/when I have the money).... it wouldn't make sense for me to go on antivirals, then... I do have high titres for EBV... is that the same as having high antibodies?
     
  11. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    If you have low nk function than antivirals would help give you some protection against certain herpes viruses. I was actually off antivirals for a short time when i got the shingles. Of late i have been trying periods without antivirals but still can only last 2-4 weeks before viral symptoms occur.

    As for titres and antibodies, generally the same, titres are a measure of the level of antibodies? I think if you have a PCR test for a virus it actually measures the amount of virus in the blood. Im not 100% sure so you would have to look it up again.
     
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  12. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl But I Look So Good.

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    Doesn't montoya have a 5 yr wait?
     
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  13. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    That is right as far as I know
     
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  14. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    sorry to hear that... if you have shingles, are you supposed to take antivirals for the rest of your life? What about inosine? have you tried that? I didn't have much luck w it myself... I took a lot of inosine & turkey tail in december/early jan to boost my immune system, but then i got a 2 mo flu that I just got over, so I feel like it didn't do much. However, it helps other people, and maybe I didn't try it long enough..

    thanks for explaining the nk cell thing..
     
  15. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    The innate system must take care of it till the adaptive system kicks in.
     
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  16. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    If you're willing to see a NP in Montoya's ofc, you can get in fairly soon... a month? I would do that... I think these guys all fall in love a protocol, and then make minor variations by patient... in fact, that's my reservation in going to him.. If I know that he's just going to rx valcyte or famvir (via an np) then why wouldn't i just take inosine - which I think is the same thing??
     
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  17. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    what's the diff between innate and adaptive?
     
  18. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    adaptive is about antibodies that recognise previous infections and can kill these infections. The innate immune system are those immune cells such as nk cells, neutrophils etc that kill cells infected by infections as well as cancer infected cells(by nk cells) and is the first line of defence until antibodies can be made to help fight these infections etc.
     
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  19. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    In short, innate is present from birth and adaptive is aquired

    Innate is none specific. Adaptive is specific.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
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  20. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    so, how the heck do you avoid cancer if you have virtually no nk cells (like me)?
     

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