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does NAC really cause damage?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by physicsstudent13, Sep 1, 2013.

  1. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I was reading in Stephen Buhner's new book, Healing Lyme Coinfections Bartonella and Mycoplasma, that NAC in high doses can break up biofilms. This can be a double edged sword since it can release more infectious bacteria into a person's system.

    It's possible that some people react badly to NAC due to thiol sensitivity either from mercury toxicity and/or certain CBS mutations.

    Also, many people here are low in glutathione and have high glutamate levels. Since cysteine is a rate-limiting factor for glutathione (which is made up of cysteine, glycine, and glutamate) people can potentially both increase glutathione and decrease glutamate by taking either NAC, L-cysteine, or L-Cystine.

    For more information about the glutathione and glutamate issues for people with ME/CFS I'd highly recommend Marco's series of articles about the neuroinflammatory model for ME/CFS:
    http://www.cortjohnson.org/authors/marco/

    I don't believe that the amount of people who react badly to NAC is very high. In fact I think it's quite low. Anyone here can confirm this simply by just going to iherb.com or swansonvitamins.com or vitacost.com and reading the customer reviews. It's true that the people in this community are more likely to react badly to supplements, but that's the case with ALL supplements. We shouldn't exclude supplements just because a small percentage of people react badly to them.

    @aquariusgirl
    Rich cautioned people with suspected mercury issues from taking NAC, L-cysteine, and l-cystine, but thought it might help others with glutamate-induced excitoxicity
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...excitotoxicity-on-methylation-protocol.18721/
     
  2. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hi @Critterina

    I realize this is an ancient post, but I'm really confused on the niacin/niacinamide/NADH issue as it relates to histamine intolerance. So much conflicting info out there, so I'm hoping you might be able to help me. I'm convinced that histamine intolerance has been an issue for me from even before I 'officially' got sick, but even more so during the past year (after being sick for 16 years).

    Rich Vank and Ben Lynch (among others) have said that methylation lowers histamine levels, especially if active folates and b12s are used. And I realize above that NADH is also necessary, but I wonder about the amounts, as niacin/niacinamide inhibits methylation (or absorbs, soaks up methyl groups), and niacinamide has been shown in relatively small amounts to increase histamine:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23426511

    So I'm curious, besides, avoiding high histamine or histamine-releasing foods, what does your protocol look like now, and what's your opinion on the niacin/niacinamide/NADH issue?

    Thanks so much. :)

    Dan
     
  3. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hey Freddd,

    Here's a study that showed NAC increased histamine release:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2409763
     
  4. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Hey @dannybex ,

    Sorry I have almost no time to write. My issue has to do with dietary histamine. I do not react to histamine-releasing foods and I don't have any of the signs of histadelia (just the opposite!). So, I'm just guessing here, but perhaps it's possible that blood levels of histamine are not the issue in at least MY histamine intolerance.

    If you look at the article on Histamine and Histamine Intolerance in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (Maintz), they call out NAC (N-acetyl-cysteine) as something that aggravates and should be avoided by people with HI. (I mention because NAC is the topic of this post).

    But you mention NADH. I have no histamine intolerance reaction from it. Maybe the histamine my body produces (like from the histamine-releasing foods) doesn't bother me, or maybe my reserves are low so I don't produce much, or maybe I only react to dietary histamine. NADH has been instrumental to me during my winters in the Denver, CO and Washington DC areas, in keeping the circulation in my extremities. I have had Reynaud's and sometimes in the cold I have a hard time with that. NADH seems to help a lot.

    My protocol now, if you mean supplements, is way paired back. Since my diet improved (now that I don't have to avoid histamines, I figured I was getting near-sufficient nutrition, so I cut back the expenses of my supplements. My diet, after the 3-day fast, seems again to tolerate a complete range of foods without symptoms. But it's only been 24 hours. (And I did break my fast with pizza and a brownie plus fruit and veg, following half an hour after a glass of coconut water. I seem none the worse for it.) Did you see I've been posting in "Critterina's Histamine Intolerance Journal" or some such title?

    If you want more details on anything (like my supplements), let me know, but I can really only talk about my own experience. I guess at the causes/effect at this point.
     
    dannybex likes this.
  5. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Dan,
    I just looked more closely at that article. They were using men. They were using 5x the NADH I take. The result was a decrease in betaine; since I'm BHMT-08 +/+ and MTRR A66G +/+ and I take sublingual methylB12, it's not like my betaine is going to be missed, since it's not doing that much anyway. They say "These results suggest that excess nicotinamide can disturb monoamine-neurotransmitter metabolism." Yep. Probably so. But whatever immune system bad behaviors I get/got from histamines, the NADH didn't bother me, however, 1/4 of the thinnest slice of a tomato would make me sick for 3 days. Go figure. Maybe it would be different for everyone else.
     
    dannybex likes this.
  6. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Thanks @Critterina, I'll PM you or reply in more detail in the next few days. I don't have time to write more right now either. :)
     
  7. heyitisjustin

    heyitisjustin

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    It appears that NAC was worsening my histamine issues. However, I stopped several things at once so it could've been doing nothing. I've read in a few histamine places that NAC was a bad idea.

    Why would one take NADH? Is it supposed to lower histamines?
     
  8. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Some people use NADH to help the krebs cycle / mitochondrial function.
     
  9. heyitisjustin

    heyitisjustin

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    My main problem seems to be controlling high histamine via methylation. When I saw
    Nicotinamide in NADH I guessed that it wasn't for me. I am not too familiar with krebs cycle / mitochondrial function.
    Could NADH improve my methylation/histamine?
     
  10. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    That's the same thing I've been wondering. Niacinamide/nicotinamide does increase histamine...

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23426511

    …but not sure if NADH would do the same thing.
     
  11. heyitisjustin

    heyitisjustin

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    I've seen people say that some niacin is useful for things that pertain to me (I think sleep). If there isn't too much it might not be bad. I am not sure what krebs cycle / mitochondrial function. It sounds like that would increase energy, which wouldn't be something useful for me, but might be worth a trial for you. Has anyone else on PR tried it?
     

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