Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Doctor Claims Leaky Gut is "Easy" To Fix

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Spirit-Aligned, Feb 12, 2016.

  1. Spirit-Aligned

    Spirit-Aligned

    Messages:
    1
    Likes:
    2
    Hi there,

    I'm new to this forum, and not necessarily sure that I have ME or CF, but I do experience fatigue as part of my symptoms, and from what I've discovered recently, this is most likely all due to gut issues I've been tested and proven to currently have, including an overgrowth of streptococcus, a parasite in my gut called blasto hominis, and almost 100% leaky gut likelyhood based on everything else going on, and my other symptoms...

    Anyway, I'm going to post another thread, where I'm going to journal my progress with changing diet, possibly taking antibiotics to get rid of the strep, etc.

    But this thread was just a quick one, to get your feedback. My Dr said yesterday that the leaky gut part of this is easy, and it can be "sealed up" with Slippery Elm. What are your thoughts on this, from what I understand taking slippery elm while I have strep would be a terrible idea, no? (as they love starchy type foods from what I read)

    I am not sure about going carb free, which is what another poster recommends here as a necessity for overcoming strep. I have tried it, and literally felt like the lowest energy and most fatigue I've ever felt. I guess there is a turn over period, but man it's definitely not something to jump into lightly..

    Any thoughts and feedback appreciated!

    Thanks guys,

    N
     
    maryb likes this.
  2. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

    Messages:
    14,323
    Likes:
    21,471
    Albuquerque
    Hmmm. Not so sure it is that easy as there can be lots of bacterial imbalances, infections and other things going on that need to be addressed more specifically.
     
    Beyond, ahmo, Crux and 2 others like this.
  3. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes:
    3,404
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    The doctor who did my colonoscopy said that there is no such thing as a leaky gut.
     
  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,449
    Likes:
    28,522
    I've heard that it's a term associated with quackery too. I don't really know anything about this, but I would be cautious with any things like this, and try to make sure that any treatments are based upon good quality evidence, controlled trials, etc. Good luck.
     
    PennyIA likes this.
  5. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    972
    Likes:
    1,363
    Canada
    Some doctors are uninformed. In conventional medicine, leaky gut is called intestinal permeability. There are loads of studies in standard medical journals on it. Here's one, you can google lots of others:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1856434/
     
    bertiedog, Solstice, ebethc and 19 others like this.
  6. roller

    roller wiggle jiggle

    Messages:
    451
    Likes:
    215
    a lot of so-called 'health issues' are perfectly normal - as long as they dont run out of control.

    permeability in the body is varying over time.
    that seems 'normal'. to some extend.
    our endothelium leaks, our gut and basically everything else does.

    the leaking may depend on genetics, aquired pathogens, their breeding times, likely other environmental conditions (temperature etc.), nutrition...too.
    it gets worse with age, probably due to naturally higher pathogen loads.

    imo.

    im wondering, if permeability is the 'cause' when aged people die without any apparent disease. multi organ failure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
    Beyond likes this.
  7. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

    Messages:
    841
    Likes:
    2,960
    Hmmm, was gonna say the same thing re "leaky gut" (unconfirmed).

    Thanks for the link @helen1

    Maybe we'd all do ourselves a favour if we stopped using the term "leaky gut" (==quackery) and start using the term "intestinal permeability" (==more acceptable?)

    @Spirit-Aligned not sure about that slippery elm thing, sounds like you have found the only doctor with "the cure" for an as yet unaccepted condition... approach with caution.
     
  8. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes:
    2,710
    The term leaky gut irritates me.

    The intestinal lining is first line defence and when that is damaged all kind of pathogens can pass through.
     
    justy, Snow Leopard and Skippa like this.
  9. roller

    roller wiggle jiggle

    Messages:
    451
    Likes:
    215
    so true @lansbergen ...thats why they do it...

    we are jailbroken.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016
    Skippa likes this.
  10. South

    South Senior Member

    Messages:
    466
    Likes:
    448
    Southeastern United States
    @TigerLilea Your doctor needs to go back to school:

    The name used by the medical field for leaky gut is "intestinal permeability; see for example this review
    from Medline, including footnotes from Gastroenterology medical journal:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1856434/
     
    PatJ, MeSci, JPV and 3 others like this.
  11. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes:
    3,096
    UK
    leaky gut - a term associated with quackery.............. I want to give up sometimes:bang-head::bang-head:

    Do we really need a debate on whether to call it leaky gut or not, we know what it means and that it definitely exists.

    Lets just get on with trying to treat it and helping others by sharing what works.

    @Spirit-Aligned -good luck with your treatment, Slippery Elm is a good herb , so maybe with the combination of abx it can help. Diet is always important.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2016
    Violeta, justy, Lou and 5 others like this.
  12. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,505
    Likes:
    2,710
    The term irritates me and probably many doctors too.

    No debate. If you want to be taken serious, just use the proper name.
     
  13. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,558
    Likes:
    3,551
     
    ljimbo423, ebethc, Violeta and 4 others like this.
  14. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

    Messages:
    858
    Likes:
    1,079
     
  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,480
    Likes:
    35,011
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    The issue with "leaky gut" seems to me to be historical. In the early days of the theory there were claims that large numbers of bacteria could pass into the body from the gut. We know that causes frequently fatal infection. Hence all the medical authorities were sceptical.

    However most modern forms have fragments or pieces of bacteria passing into the body. Not whole bacteria. This can include things like lipopolysacharide. It can include fragments that make it look like the bacteria is in the blood. I could be wrong, but I do not recall ever having read that the bacteria are isolated in the blood and grown in culture. I do recall studies involving high levels of lipopolysaccharide, which alone can make you very sick.

    Let me make an analogy. Most doctors only know the basics of ME or CFS, and frequently get that wrong. Most doctors are right, I think, to claim that the symptom of fatigue should not cause great issues. They do however ignore the fine details of what is going on, and would be surprised to learn that many with ME do not have chronic fatigue. Its not a required symptom. Yet now we know that there is a post-exertional collapse in energy production. This is provoked by events. Fatigue is merely secondary to that.

    The misunderstandings are due to how the story was told over time. Old leaky gut research is very different from modern leaky gut research.
     
  16. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes:
    3,096
    UK
    @lansbergen
    I tend not to correct people if I'm understanding what they say. Seems a bit petty, but you crack on.
     
  17. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

    Messages:
    841
    Likes:
    2,960
    Chill out folks, I was alluding to the quackery of "nutritionists", of whom there are plenty out there, that prescribe diets and supplements based on listening to your symptoms and diagnosing "leaky gut" in lieu of any evidence.

    It's a trendy term, a cool term, all these self appointed nutrition experts out there throw the term around and take your money for a special protein shake or whatever.
     
  18. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes:
    3,096
    UK
    @Skippa
    I wasn't referring to your post it was Esther12 s. I'm chilled, I understand, I'm here to find help/info, give help/info. not opinions, of which I have no interest in.
    thanks.
     
  19. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,449
    Likes:
    28,522
    I think I was saying similar to skippa.

    Not something I've done much research on, but 'leaky gut' does seem to be one of those terms which I notice turning up on quack's websites, and being used to promote dodgy alternative treatments. Don't see why you'd have a problem with my post.
     
  20. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    12,778
    Likes:
    34,181
    UK
    Anyway! :)

    Surprised no-one has mentioned that leaky gut/intestinal impermeability and its relationship to the gut microbiome is a major research strand of Invest in ME. They've got a crowdfund specifically for it.
     
    Solstice, Laelia, justy and 2 others like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page