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Do you think appropriate vaccines could prevent ME/CFS/SEID

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by redaxe, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. redaxe

    redaxe Senior Member

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    Let's say hypothetically that all humans were routinely vaccinated against EBV, CMV, HHV6, HHV7, Coxsackie B, Parvovirus B19, Borrelia, Bartonella, Babesia, Chlamydia Pneumonia, Mycoplasma Pneumonia as infants do you think that most cases of CFS and possibly other complex autoimmune diseases like MS or certain viral related cancers could be effectively prevented? Just on Multiple Sclerosis for instance it appears to have a very close association to EBV infection so it has been debated whether an EBV vaccine could prevent MS altogether. Other EBV diseases such as Mononucleosis or other EBV-related cancers such as Burkitt's lymphoma.
     
  2. sscobalt93

    sscobalt93 Senior Member

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    I am completely against vaccinations. No reason to toy with out immune systems. Our bodies were not meant to deal with dead viruses or modified viruses in order to give immunity. Sadly it is what it is. Also the things they put in vaccines are not what I am interested in at all. They cause the issues. I have read that there is over a 1000 times more aluminum in the vaccine then there is the 'active' ingredient. I think these lipid coated viruses are more than mother nature, but that may be just me. The best things we can do to prevent this from happening is to eat healthy and to keep up a strong immune system.
     
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  3. JPV

    JPV ɹǝqɯǝɯ ɹoıuǝs

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    I think vaccines may very well have caused it...
     
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  4. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl I'm with Cheesus

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    After spending more than twelve years reading the history of vaccinations and studying scores of Georgian, Victorian and twentieth-century original evidence and documents I was frankly shocked to find that there is in fact very little evidence that our cherished belief in vaccinations is well-founded. In fact, very disappointingly most of the evidence is to the contrary. I, like most of us, before I examined the evidence for myself believed that we were saved from such hideous diseases as smallpox by the 'discovery' of vaccination back in 1774 when the first known vaccinator bravely applied the story of the dairymaids when he deliberately infected his wife and two of his children with cowpox in a field in Dorset. This did serve to provide protection for a limited time in many cases, but Jenner's attempt to apply this to a system of mass vaccination ushered in what was known as 'the slaughter of the innocents' for the next hundred years. It was a world-wide disaster that is today ignored where about 80% of those who contracted smallpox had been successfully vaccinated and, according to the official medical literature were five times more likely to die of it than the unvaccinated. The situation did not improve during the next century either as evidenced by articles in the BMJ and Lancet and elsewhere. Today, of course, we have much anecdotal evidence that indiscriminate and excessive vaccinations with their adjuvants can cause/trigger autoimmune diseases in the vulnerable, including ME, although this putative association is firmly denied by the industry and our governments. So far from further vaccines protecting us against ME, based on the evidence of the last two hundred years, they may actually exacerbate the situation.

    The moral of the vaccination story is not to believe popular propaganda churned out by interested parties but do your own research and decide for yourself. The truth might give you a shock.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
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  5. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl I'm with Cheesus

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    ...........................also remember that Dr Byron Hyde reminded us a year or two ago that the medical staff who were victims of the first ME epidemic in LA in the '30s were paid huge sums in compensation provided that they signed a gagging clause. The reason given for the clause was that the government was concerned that the outbreak the would deter people from agreeing to be vaccinated as it was assumed that the Brodie polio vaccine was responsible for the first outbreak. I think yellow fever vaccine was also brought into use at this time, but, if I recall correctly, the outbreak was considered to be the result of Brodie's vaccine. Brodie, of course, committed suicide a little after, although he was a young man in his 30s. Could the polio vaccine also be responsible for the Royal Free Outbreak in 1955 when only the (vaccinated?)medical staff became ill and not the patients?
     
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  6. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    No it would not.

    Vaccines do not prevent infection.

    Futhermore children are already vaccinated to frequent with to many pathogens. The vacination scheme should be cut back to what it once was Increasing frequency and putting more pathogens in it is not the answer.
     
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  7. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    I completely disagree, vaccines are one of the reasons life expectancy has increased so much in the past 100 years or so.

    Countrygirl, if the smallpox vaccine was ineffective, what do you put the eradication of smallpox down to?

    Some vaccines have some negative side effects; some people confuse this with them having no beneficial effects.
     
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  8. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Going back to Redaxes question, I think the answer is yes.
     
  9. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    Well, I think it's no.
     
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  10. eafw

    eafw Senior Member

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    In reality I don't know whether it would have significant impact even if it could be done.

    *IF* we could eliminate all viruses then obviously we would no longer see the effects of those viruses, but there are other things that can cause a neuro-immune event - ME is basically post neuro-immune insult disorder - so a better line of enquiry in practice is to understand the before and after that causes our system to dysfunction so, whatever the trigger.
     
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  11. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    I don't think that vaccines have prolonged life on average, at least if you exclude infant deaths, take measles for example, they killed few and disabled a few and vaccines may have prevented them but I don't think that they have prolonged average lifespan.

    That is due to better sanitation, nutrition ect. i believe.

    you could perhaps argue that some vaccines have greatly reduced mortality by eradicating certain diseases, but a lot of them had little effect on mortality i would say. Then it is really hard to exclude other factors. Life is much different now than it was back then.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
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  12. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    If you exclude infant deaths? So if you exclude the biggest factor in the equation? I don't think you're being entirely serious...if you are saying, though, that there is not much to gain from being vaccinated if you are no longer an infant, you might have an argument there.
     
  13. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    And the idea that a lot of diseases had little effect on mortality - I think you will find that the ones that have little effect are not vaccinated against (EBV, etc). The ones that are, such as smallpox killed millions and millions of people.
     
  14. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    I don't think you even need to be a scientist to understand this, you just need to read a little history - go back a hundred years and see how many times someone is said to have died of measles, diptheria, etc. How often do you hear (or even read) about that today in the West?
     
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  15. Kina

    Kina

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    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
     
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  16. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    I don't think you got what i was trying to say.

    I think measles actually didn't kill that many from what i read. enough that it was a tragedy but in terms of average lifespan the effect was not significant. Measles would disable a lot of people(still a minority)

    I think in France smallpox which was one of the worst offenders when it came to mortality was killing one in 7(excluding infant deaths) at one time during their lifetime that is a huge number but if you look at the effect at the average lifespan it didn't make that much of a difference. Other infectious disease were largely prevented by improvements in sanitary condition.

    Living conditions were poor and people were malnourished, this does affect mortality as well.

    What i meant to say that there are many other reasons why lifespans would increase and the effect of vaccinations is just one of many and may not be as siginificant as people assume.

    A huge increase is due to the reduction of infant mortality and better living conditions.
     
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  17. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Thanks Kina, I was looking for those stats.

    Chipmunk1, I guess you didn't see Kina's post then?
     
  18. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    And, although I'm not very good at statistics, I'm pretty sure that if smallpox was killing one in seven (not including infants again!) then it would have a significant effect on mortality, assuming that its victims weren't just old people.
     
  19. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    where did i say that there is not much to gain? Is disability something desirable?

    I was not saying that vaccines are useless but I was saying that i think that our increased lifespans have other reasons which are not related to vaccines.

    Sure. I did see it.

    Please tell me how many years of life the measles vaccines does add on average to our lifespan?
     
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  20. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    That's what I said in my original post that you quoted! If you are not suggesting that vaccines had a negligible effect on this that might not outweigh the negative effects, we are in agreement.
     

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