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Do you have crimson crescents?

Discussion in 'Immunological' started by Robin, May 22, 2010.

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Do you have crimson crescents?

  1. I have them and I tested positive for XMRV.

    5 vote(s)
    5.7%
  2. I don't have them and I tested positive for XMRV.

    2 vote(s)
    2.3%
  3. I have them and I tested negative for XMRV.

    4 vote(s)
    4.5%
  4. I don't have them and I tested negative for XMRV.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. I have them and I have not yet been tested for XMRV.

    67 vote(s)
    76.1%
  6. I don't have them and I have not yet been tested for XMRV.

    10 vote(s)
    11.4%
  1. awol

    awol *****

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    bumping, just to give everyone a chance to vote
  2. Overstressed

    Overstressed Senior Member

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    Belgium
    Hi Robin,

    is this not the same as strep throat, or pharyngitis ?

    OS.
  3. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    I am not Robin, but I'll bite (hehe).

    No, this is not pharyngitis. My throat is not inflamed, nor sore at the moment, yet the crimson crescents remain.
  4. HopingSince88

    HopingSince88 Senior Member

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    Maine
    Hi OS,

    I think strep or pharyngitis is a different area (from the tonsils to the back of the throat). Whereas these stripes of inflammation are in front of the tonsils, just behind the molars. Also, for me, I have no sore throat at all.
  5. Robin

    Robin Guest

    Hi, OS! Strep is an acute infection caused by bacteria. There's usually white streaks or patches on the tonsils. You can see a pic here (I didn't insert it inthread because it's pretty gross):

    http://medicalct.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/strep-throat.jpg

    It would resolve after time either with antibiotics or on its own. If you have crescents, you'll have them indefinitely (as long as you are ill.) I've had mine for years.

    Pharyngitis is just a generic medical term for inflamed throat, which can have many causes. Here's another lovely picture:

    http://www.semp.us/images/Biot641PhotoF.jpg

    Neither of them look like the crescents. Like Kim, I have no pain, and from the thread I noticed a lot of people finding them that didn't even know they were there! So, obviously there's no signs of pain in many people.

    ETA: Wow, I just looked at the poll! I think Cunha found them in 80%; about 90% of people in the poll have them. About 12% in our tiny number of XMRV positives do not have them. Very interesting!!!

    Thanks to all who participated. I know the flashlight/mirror yoga you had to do wasn't easy. :)
  6. OurDayWillCome

    OurDayWillCome

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    Just wanted to add that I had no idea the CCs were there until I saw this thread and checked. My throat is not red elsewhere except for a couple of spots on the Uvula. My throat is not sore and does not appear to be inflamed in any way.
  7. Dorothy

    Dorothy

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    I've had the crescents since at least 1992, when I saw an article about them in the CFIDS Association's Chronicle publication and then got out my flashlight and checked. They've never gone away but the color varies between basic reddish and super-fiery crimson. Strangely, I've never really had much of a sore throat. I also have a few red streaks on the uvula, which I am pretty sure weren't there before I got sick two decades ago. Primary care physicians that I've seen have never ever noticed the CCs.

    I haven't yet gotten checked for XMRV but want to do so VERY badly!!! I'm waiting for the antibody test to come out.
  8. Karin

    Karin

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    OK guys, since I am new here, and I also want to play doctor, I guess it is my turn to show you mine... :rolleyes:

    I do not have a CFS diagnosis, but I have many suspicious issues (irritable bowel, food sensitivities, depression, dizziness, fatigue and brain fog) as well as a child with autism. Nevertheless, I don't think I would qualify for CFS, since oftentimes I feel fine (on Zoloft, and without stress). Whenever I have a virus, stress, or if I am not watching what I am eating, I will get a flare, but eventually it subsides.

    Anyways, here are some pics (I hope it will work). I see redness in my throat but not on my soft palate, what do you think? I was just at the doctor and I am fine. I am not sick. I do have chronic sore throat though, mild and scratchy, more in the morning. I've had that for a decade at least. It does get worse when I have a flare. Often my tongue is sore though, though I don't see any signs of thrush.

    Attached Files:

  9. awol

    awol *****

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    Karin, your photos are a bit ambiguous. If you have them they are faint. The really red part in these images is too far back to be crescents.
  10. Karin

    Karin

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    Thanks Awol, that's what I thought. I see red things in my throat but not on my soft palate, except for a few blood vessels.
  11. Robin

    Robin Guest

    Hi Karin, I don't see a crescent, either. You do look like you have a sore throat, though, there's definitely red streaks back there!

    You do have a low red blotch mark on the side of your mouth where a crescent might be but it doesn't really extend up like the crescents we've seen. It's hard to tell because the camera focused on your teeth!

    [​IMG]
  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    HERPANGINA SORE THROAT AND CRIMSON CRESCENTS

    I wonder if there is a connection between herpangina type sore throats, and crimson crescents? Are crimson crescents in fact the smoldering remnants of the original herpangina sore throat that started many people's chronic fatigue syndrome (and never quite cleared up, the throat always remaining very slightly sore)?

    Herpangina is a sore throat where the redness and inflammation is centered on the "anterior tonsillar pillars" (the two anterior pillars are at the back of the soft palette, running down from the uvula to the lower jaw). NOW INTERESTINGLY, THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE THE CRIMSON CRESCENTS ARE FOUND.

    Sometimes the red inflammation of herpangina is confined just to one side (on only one of the anterior pillars).

    My CFS began as a herpangina sore throat (but only on one side of my throat, in my case). Originally, my anterior pillar looked red and inflamed (classic case of herpangina), but now it has definitely turned crimson after several years. I suspect that this crimson color may result from a continuing low-level viral infection in this part of the soft palette.

    Herpangina sore throat is only caused by certain viruses: coxsackievirus B1 to B6, coxsackievirus A16 and enterovirus 71. More rarely, herpangina can be caused by echovirus, parechovirus 1, adenovirus, and herpes simplex virus (reference here).

    Perhaps the crimson areas are just a chronic, low-level continuing viral infection. Perhaps in people with CFS, there are many areas in the interior of the body that harbor this low-level continuing viral infection, and would look crimson if we could see them.

    How many people here with crimson crescents have a chronic, low-level sore throat?

    And, if you can remember, did your CFS begin with a herpangina sore throat?




    [​IMG]
  13. Karin

    Karin

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    Thank you so much Robin! I have a better idea now of where to look. I looked some more, and I am pretty sure I DON'T have crescents, which makes sense since I don't have full-blown CFS. I do have chronic sore throat though... Oh well.
  14. _Kim_

    _Kim_ Guest

    Hi Hip,

    Thanks for the info on herpangina. As my CFS started with EBV, this doesn't ring true for my onset. Also, herpangina can cover a much larger area than the crimson crescents. Often the uvula and more of the soft palate are involved and are diagnosed because of, not just inflammation, but blisters and ulcers like in this image:

    [​IMG]
  15. Overstressed

    Overstressed Senior Member

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    Belgium
    Hi,

    I'm sure I infected my wife, and when I look into her mouth, she doesn't have them, while I have them. I think this is because she's EBV-, and CMV-, while I'm positive for both.

    I think it has to do with EBV, personally...

    OS.
  16. awol

    awol *****

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    OS,

    Might be related to chronic EBV, but on the other hand, 98% of the population gets EBV at some point, and active mono, caused by EBV looks nothing like crimson crsecents - it is a white scummy coating over the tonsils that hurts a lot.

    Since only 4% of the populations has crimson crescents, but almost all have had EBV, this does not explain the prevalence of crescents specifically among people with ME/CFS (about 80%)
  17. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

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    London UK
    I've just checked my son (has autism) and he has these. Thin red line on both sides.
  18. cfs since 1998

    cfs since 1998 *****

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    Wow, the plot thickens. Somebody ought to get a group of autistic children together, excluding those that have relatives with ME/CFS, and check them.
  19. OverTheHills

    OverTheHills

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    New Zealand
    I have them I think. Quite dark and going up quite high compared to some. Thankfully partner does not have them.Great relief. OTH
  20. judderwocky

    judderwocky Senior Member

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    I just signed onto this forum... and i have to say, you guys are already makeing me laugh :)

    laughter is a good thing!

    on a more depressing note... i think have the crescents as well. i have been doing a bit better lately and i think mine are faded... until i saw your guys pictures i just thought i had a weird allergy or something.... guess i know better
    thanks for showing the pics guys, it really helps someone like me who will read a worded description and then start thinking into it too much (well how red is red? and is this purple enough?)

    also... does anybody notice a bunch of swollenish vessels leading into the reddish areas? i can tell they are vessels , but they look kinda swollen like worms or something.

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