The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Do I have Adrenal Fatigue or Cfs ?

Discussion in 'Adrenal Dysfunction' started by plaruno, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. plaruno

    plaruno

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    Hi all,I'm new to the forum so don't know if I'm posting this is the right place. I have been reading many post about cfs since I joined this forum. I checked many other sources on the internet about cfs and Andrenal Fatigue I also looked dianosing criterias like canadian criteria and I couldn't decide wheather I have CFS or Adrenal Fatigue or do I have both.

    I am 20 years old university student and I have been suffering fatigue (which is not endig by rest) , sleep dysfuntion , PEM and having brain fog more than 2 years. It was started when I was studying university exam at that period this was very stressful for me. First, I couldn't sleep cuz I felt so stressed even if night time my heart beats were so frequent. Then, headache started which wasn't end one mounth. After that time I have exprienced countless flu like ilness and since then I just don't feel normal. I am feeling like I am living in dream and I just don't feel anthing my brains is too foggy. Also, I have got gut problems gluten , dairy and other harmfull staff made me worse. Thankfully, I dont have pain such as muscle and joint pain. In this 2 year period, I had to go to school and do daily stuff .Even if I wasn't Ok I can do stuff and I made reasonable school Gpa. If I force myself too much I got chrashes and PEMs especially When I have final exam week.

    In my country there is not any cfs doc. I did all lab test and they all seem to normal and doctors are always said that 'you are just depressed' . I stop looking answer from them and I have been making my own research like many of you guys since I wasn't feel normal . I think I fit many cfs diagnosing criterias but don't have joint ,muscle paint and I am still fuctioning so this situation seem to me I have more likely to have Adreanl fagitue rather than Cfs but I am not totally sure.

    How do you know the differences between Adrenal Fatigue and CFS many of these symptoms are identical :(
     
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  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Adrenal fatigue shouldn't include PEM. Can you describe your PEM?
     
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  3. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    There's no such thing as adrenal fatigue.
     
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  4. plaruno

    plaruno

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    For instance sometimes when I have to do some job which is required some hard physical activity I feel depteated and even sometimes next day I wake up with having sore throat. My base line is 5/10 but after that kind of physcal activity I feel like 2/10 . Furthermore, that takes time to get normal.

    Thank you Valentijin for your reply.
     
  5. plaruno

    plaruno

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    Really :( I feel weak but my illness wasn't improve or healed it remain stable I don't know what I am going through but I haven't seen any cfs stroy like that . Could it be the mild version of cfs ? Because most of the time I heard people became worse as time progress.
     
  6. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member

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    The other side.
    I seem to remember a thread discussing this, however the symptoms associated with "adrenal fatigue" do exist, they may, or may not be caused by fatigue of the adrenal glands, but, as far as I know, they do exist.
     
  7. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals The '59 Sound

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    Adrenal Fatigue is a very valid illness, although incorrectly referred to by many on the internet including many 'holistic' doctors.

    The correct medical term for Adrenal Fatigue is General Adaptation Syndrome. I suggest reading up on Hans Seyles work on GAS, and then Dr Lams work on the GAS/AF. Adrenal Fatigue was coined by Dr James Wilson in his book '21st Century Stress Syndrone', who was the pioneer in aiding people to understand their condition, that medical fraternity didn't (because although General Adaptation Syndrome is taught in medical text books, its merely a bit part).

    Thus, AF does exist, but it is not what many people think it is and those that denote it, don't understand it - which is surprising to see on a forum for another 'condition' that many denote as 'not existing'.

    AF/GAS is a stress disorder that causes major subclinical dysfunction of the endrocrine system, but has many extra facets in pretty much all other biological functions.

    PEM is a symptom of AF, however this does not come into play until the hyperactivity dyfunction settles after the exercise/stress/crash, which can be up to three to four days after said event, while the adrenaline is still flooding your system, only when the system restores balance, does the exhaustion set in.

    Af is a great way to understand/diagnose your illness when it was primarily brought on by stress.

    https://explorable.com/general-adaptation-syndrome

    https://www.drlam.com/articles/adrenal_fatigue.asp
     
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  8. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    You can have low cortisol levels for different reasons, but it's got nothing to do with your glands getting "fatigued".
     
  9. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Which text books are that?
     
  10. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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  11. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals The '59 Sound

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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2017
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  12. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals The '59 Sound

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    Yes its very true, low cortisol is one of them. Low cortisol as mentioned is not a primary way to diagnose AF/GAS, but it is something that 'happens' after years of chronic stress, when the body because in a dysfunctional state of trying to find an equilibirum, and becomes 'confused'. Be if that that MAY be the cause of adrenal dynsfuction, I know myself that when I had severe AF, I was pre Adrenal Insuffuciency, now, after being misdiagnosed and wrongly medicated for AF for a long period of time, I ended up with Secondary Adrenal Insufficiency.
     
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  13. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    There is nothing mentioned in the GAS about adrenal glands getting fatigued, just a change in stress response, which can happen due to e.g. glucocorticoid resistance.

    Oh, and remind me about Dr. Lam. Is he the one charging $300 or more for diagnosing people with "adrenal fatigue" over the phone, and then recommending them to take B5 and Vitamin C as a "treatment"?
     
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  14. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    @plaruno

    If you are worried about your adrenal function, you could ask for a ACTH stimulation test, also known as a synacthen test. If the result come back fine, it is unlikely to be a problem with your adrenal glands. Here is some info:

    https://patient.info/health/synacthen-test

    Remember, you can still have low baseline cortisol level (common in CFS) or a blunted stress response. The HPA is regulated by different factors, with the immune system being a key player. It could even be adaptive (meaning that the cortisol downregulation is there to protect you).
     
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  15. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals The '59 Sound

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    Yes Seyles work set the foundations, but as with everything when dealing with systematic disorders, he couldn't note or explain everything with it being in its infancy of understanding. So further exploration was needed. 'Just a change in stress response', yes that it is what AF is, and after prolonged exposure to this 'change in stress response' can cause the fatigue of the adrenal glands and endocrine system, which Lam has promoted further showing stage 4 of the NEM stress response. You do need to study the work rather than use Wikipedia and Google for quick reference, but I appreciate its vert difficult for one to accept nor understand a condition fully when not suffering from it (or as in your case accepting you suffer from it). How many people on this forum wish they have healthy people who could truly understand ME.

    Yes Dr Lam has high consultancy fee's and border on ridiculous sometimes (no worse than a pharmaceutical company tho eh?), and although his methods do not work for everyone, they have helped many recover from AF, his knowledge and explanations of the illness is exceptional. Dr Wilsons was great and set the baseline, but Lam has further explored the illness and continued to bring a wider spread understanding to the illness and attempts to promote natural and full healing rather than masking it with medications and shotgunning various supplements to see if it makes something better.
     
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  16. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals The '59 Sound

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    This is wrong.

    A ACTH test will show the ability of the adrenals to 'react' at a set time, however , they are unable to 'keep up' throughout the entire day.

    Been there done that, eventually tho after years of suffering I failed mine.

    Blunted stress response? You don't understand GAS or AF, you have the complete opposite, you have a heightened stress response with AF and GAS because you are only able to produce adrenaline continually rather than cortisol or a balanced amount. Long term exposure to high amounts of adrenaline causes a further dysfunction of the endocrine system and then damages receptors - hence why some in severe AF try hydrocortisone it makes them go a little mental - because of the receptor sensitivity of living with low cortisol for so long. Most with AF when taking HC will feel a sense of calmness returning.
     
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  17. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    Vancouver, British Columbia
    I Googled the Mayo Clinic, the Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins - all very well known American medical institutions and not one of them has anything listed for GAS.
     
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  18. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals The '59 Sound

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    As i said, its not very well documented these days as it has unfortunately been largely ignored in favour of ignorance and arrogance.

    Heres an British Medical Journal extract, if you need further, there are plenty of sources and information about it, but you will need to do actual research rather than a trigger happy Google search for a modern medical facitily.

    http://www.bmj.com/content/1/4667/1383
     
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  19. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    I understand that it is quackery, and that there is no evidence to back up your claims. Also you keep conflating GAS and AF as if the two are the same. They're not.

    I am going to leave it up to the OP if he or she wants to listen to Wilson and Lam, two known quacks with nothing published, or the common sense of the entire medical community.

    And please don't compare this to the problems surrounding the CFS/ME diagnosis. There is plenty of research on this on pubmed, and many reseachers who accept this as a condition. There is nothing and no one in the academic or medical community who supports the idea of AF.
     
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  20. The Chronicals

    The Chronicals The '59 Sound

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    How was the research on 'pubmed' in the 40's/ and 50's regarding CFS/ME? Didnt exist did it, but it does now, and in the future we will see GAS and AF further acknowledged as long as arrogance and ignorance of the medical community dont get in the way.

    Open minds make the world a better place.
     
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