Do B Vits feed Lyme?

[Tiger Lily 813]

I saw a very smart doctor yesterday who has great lyme credentials. She told me not to supplement B vit's other than a couple that I would especially need. I was taking all of them and as many sublingual as possible. I am not sure how much I agree with this. Does anyone here have an opinion?
Thanks!!

 

[Violeta]

@Tiger Lily 813, which ones did she say that you would especially need? What other advice did she give you?

Thanks

 

[Tiger Lily 813]

I messaged you more info about the b vitamins because I think it really is a case by case thing. She also recommended LDN (she thinks the viral component is a big thing for me), teasel & rife. Also some TCM guy that I'm looking into in the city.

 

[Hanna]

Hi Tiger Lily 813, could you please share the info about vitamin B's and Lyme on the forum (and the other smart advises from your doc) ?
Some of us with Lyme, like me live in areas of the world that we don't have access to litterated Lyme docs. Thanks a lot!

 

[Tiger Lily 813]

Hi @Hanna I would, but she really glossed over this and that’s why I posted the question for all the PR geniuses : )

I had a 2 hr appt, but we went over my ten year history story that I wrote so there were a lot of areas that I needed more clarification on.

My understanding- that might be wrong- is that B vitamins are both depleted in lyme yet do feed either candida or lyme itself, not sure.

That might be why B12/methylfolate really was not good for me.
I still take B12, but not the methylfolate- I feel like I built up enough stores of that to last for eternity.

So I take a B complex and then only extra Biotin, Niacin, Riboflavin because I tested low in those (despite having had a b complex in the morning of the test, which is very odd and demonstrates an increased need).

I was previously taking a complex and then extra doses of every b vitamin and as many sublingual as possible. She didn’t think that was advisable. But I’m not sure. I really think it depends on the individual.

 

[Hanna]

Thanks Tiger Lily.

About feeding the bugs, I remember also that Borrelia loves Magnesium (like many), but also manganese.
Both were found deficient by testing. I supplement magnesium transdermally (cream), but didn't find a way to do the same with manganese.

What is better: supplying the lacking nutrients... and feed the bugs, or making them starve but suffering from a lack of some essential stuff?

 

[RosieBee]

@ Hanna I would like to resolve this too - I have been warned off vit D too (Marshall Protocol? I think). On another forum I was reading that the LLMD suggests pulsing magnesium and antibiotics alternately - seems to bring out the borellia then it can be killed.

 

[Tiger Lily 813]

I have heard about magnesium feeding it- @Hanna how are transdermal forms ok? I have some mag spray, and epsom salts. I have not been using them because I was just assuming they would also feed it.
If they are ok, I would like to be using them again : )

 

[Violeta]

I hadn't seen any scholarly studies of Borrelia using magnesium, and I had seen many studies about calcium channel blockers inhibiting mast cell degranulation. The LPS, or endotoxins, can't enter the cells without an extracellular calcium signal; block the calcium signal, stop the degranulation.

I wondered if when it's said that Bb uses magnesium, and causes magnesium deficiency if it's the other way around. If it's the other way around, could it be that we are susceptible to Lyme because we are deficient in magnesium?

Look at this study that says that Borrelia need an extracellular calcium signal in order to cross into cells. It's very complicated, but if you go down to the discussion paragraph it says it in plain English. If removing extracellular calcium reverses the movement of the Borrelia.........

The study http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-0691.2009.02869.x/full

 

[Violeta]

@Tiger Lily 813, Have you tried teasel yet? I ordered some and it arrived yesterday. It amazingly stopped my coughing that was causing sharp pains in my chest and cleared up pain in one of my ears that radiated into my jaw. I'm coughing again this morning, but it's not as bad as usual. It's giving me some hope. I've had this lung issue with sore throat for a month now.

 

[Hanna]

@ Hanna I would like to resolve this too - I have been warned off vit D too (Marshall Protocol? I think). On another forum I was reading that the LLMD suggests pulsing magnesium and antibiotics alternately - seems to bring out the borellia then it can be killed.

@RosieBee, it is very interesting. Do you have some source?

 

[Hanna]

I have heard about magnesium feeding it- @Hanna how are transdermal forms ok? I have some mag spray, and epsom salts. I have not been using them because I was just assuming they would also feed it.
If they are ok, I would like to be using them again : )

@Tiger Lily 813 . I am really deficient on Magnesium (intracellular level was measured). I had really to supplement in order to give a better chance to my mitochondries to work better. I choosed the transdermal way (patients from Dr Myhill's conducted a "study" to measure the efficiency of transdermal mag, and found it OK) and I feel it helps (Kirkman cream, epsom salts...). But I have no idea on the impact on Borrelia .

 

[Tiger Lily 813]

@Violeta I’m glad the teasel is working for you! I had the same response that I have to samento & banderol which is nothing good plus accelerating my hair shedding.

Actually I did get a cold right after starting it- and I am one of the people who doesn’t get normal colds/flus when in an immune dysfunction phase, so that was interesting. I only took it for maybe 5 days.

I want to focus right now on quieting my scalp/skin symptoms in other ways before I return to the killing lyme approach.

I’m thinking more alkalizing, maybe oxygenating things and rife are my next ideas. Also an anti-inflammatory focus. I’m supposed to try the LDN as well. And the B2/B3 is key, personally.

I am going to see a different LLMD soon to get a second opinion on my plan, and to decide which doc to continue with. But I might not be in a good state to try to kill lyme yet...

 

[RosieBee]

@RosieBee, it is very interesting. Do you have some source?

I don't have a written source; on another forum a person was describing the protocol their LLMD was using with metro (Flagyl) for two weeks with no magnesium; then two weeks of magnesium with no Flagyl. Alternating this pattern. It was a discussion about pulsed therapy, a very popular protocol that allows the body to rest and recover and any hiding organisms to re-emerge before attacking again.