Dmsa/Methylation, rich fredd?

Ive been taking DMSA, 100 mg every 4 hours for 2 days a week, and then taking a break for the rest of the time. It has been documented in numerous cases of DMSA reestablishing glutathione levels, and as a person who is glutathione supplement intolerant, I thought I would like to hear what the experts think.

Dmsa is being used with autistic kids with much success as a chelator of heavy metals, lead, mercury, tin, and even binds to uranium (yes uranium is coming out of autistic kids, look it up).

I couldnt tolerate alpha lipoic acid in larger than 100mg per day, NAC more than 600mg, or very much straight glutathione. DMSA is making my exercise tolerance increase, and reducing my rosacea by 75% in 2 weeks...but I do have flares on my "on dmsa" days. I also make sure to dose up on methylation agents on my off days.

Any other symptoms reduced besides rosacea?

Fatigue and brain fog also somewhat reduced. To be clear, I still cannot tolerate large doses of glutathione boosters, except DMSA. (I use EDTA for aluminum and cadmium heavy metal removal).

Hi, Charles.

I'm glad to hear that DMSA is helping you. It is one of the chelators discussed by Dr. Neil Nathan in his book "On Hope and Healing for Those Who Have Fallen through the Medical Cracks." It has helped a lot of people. Some, however, have reported that they don't tolerate sulfur-containing chelators well. I think this may be caused by overload of the sulfite oxidase reaction, which may be helped by molybdenum supplementation.

Since DMSA may take out some of the essential minerals was well as toxic elements, it is a good idea to supplement the essential minerals at least a couple of days removed from when DMSA is taken.

Best regards,

Rich

I do both of those, supplement molybendum and potassium and zinc, other minerals after DMSA (Ive read articles on what minerals DMSA binds to, including uranium). I do have a hard flare of symptoms when on DMSA but EDTA seems to cancel them.

So the first day I do 100mg every 4 hours, then the beginning of the 2nd day I use EDTA in the morning and then continue with 100mg DMSA every 4 hours.

Did you have a position on how it effects glutathione levels?

Bump

Hi, Charles.

A study in autism showed that DMSA treatment raised red blood cell glutathione "dramatically":

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2774660/pdf/1472-6904-9-16.pdf

Best regards,

Rich

So like I said, Ive been intolerant of glutathione boosters, except when on DMSA which I am continuing to do. Do you think heavy metals could cause glutathione exhaustion and then an autoimmune reaction to boosted levels of glutathione through ALA/NAC/Glutathione supplementation?

The proposed theory is this

Multiple infections- reemergence of suppressed viruses-no or limited heavy metal removal by the body-boosted glutathione levels now cause an autoimmune reaction.

The proposed solution is

Get treated with antibiotic and anti virals- at the same time take heavy metal removers and the methylation protocol- watch glutathione levels rebound without a crash

This is interesting. I've been using DMSA 12.5mg/4hrs/3days at varying intervals for a few years now. It seems to be the one thing that, if kept up, gives steady improvement. I was always suspicious that it might be directly raising glutathione, rather than allowing it to come up by removing mercury. The effect occurs very quickly, ie hours, which seems too quick for it to be from mercury removal. All speculative, of course.

Why did you do such a low dose for years? Thats pretty cautious. You should also try EDTA. I crash when I take straight glutathione, so the DMSA must be doing something else other than just boosting glutathione levels...

I take the low dose because higher doses seem to wipe me out afterwards and don't have any greater effect. Yes there could be more than just a glutathione boosting effect, but I suspect that it does raise them very quickly initially. I have wondered if it is because it is acting as a thiol donor(maybe that's obvious, I'm not an expert).

Hi Charles,

I consider that such boosts by non-precursor items generally do not produce the great excess of glutathione that direct precursors such as l-glutatmine and NAC together can do and cause a great deal of problem.

Hi Rich,

Does taking molybdnum recommended in combination with other minerals? Are there other kinds of chelators except from the sulfur-containing ones?

How much EDTA have you taking?

Regarding potassium, Do you know if there's an estimate amount of it that can be relative easy to digest? I read it can be very hard on the belly.

Hi, Rachel.

Multimineral supplements usually include molybdenum, since it is one of the essential minerals for the human body. If deficiencies in more than one essential mineral are suspected, then a multimineral supplement is a good thing to consider. If there is sensitivity to sulfites, a large dosage of molybdenum may be needed. Some people take 500 micrograms per day, and that is well below the recommended upper limit dosage for molybdenum.

Yes, there are non-sulfur containing chelators. Calcium sodium EDTA is one of them. (Note that it is important not to use disodium EDTA, because it can deplete calcium and cause serious problems.) It doesn't bind mercury as well as the sulfur-containing chelators, but it does bind several other toxic metals, including aluminum. There are also things like chlorella and other natural binders, which some people have found to be beneficial.

I recommend working with a physician who is experienced with chelation.

Best regards,

Rich

it would be good to get "Amalgam Illness" by Dr Andy Cutler. His protocol is either DMSA or DMPS after amalgams are removed to lower body burden of mercury. He does a 3 day on 4 day off (to start), frequent dose chelation, every 3 hr (if doing dmps it is every 6 hrs and has to be compounded, most people use DMPS if yeast is a problem b/c dmsa can cause yeast issues to worsen,
starting with 12.5mg or in some cases 25 mg and increase as tolerated.
You would start with ALA after 3 months of DMSA/DMPS. The ALA is to pull the Hg out organs and brain. it must also be used as frequent dose every 3 hrs for 3 days on, 4 off.
It is safe and can be done with slow methylation protocol and ridding infections at the same time. I have a lot of infections, lyme-mycoplasma being one with yeast-fungus, parasites and 3 viruses so I am also slowly doing ozone treatments, sauna and insuffiation as well as rife. Culter isn't keen on ozone and rife, but my infections are huge and need to be dealt with at the same time as methyl. Doing the ozone and rife can/may re distribute the Hg which is quite damaging, so per Brain Rosner "Lyme Disease and Rife Machines" suggest to have a chelation protocol-recommends Cutler, in place to "grap" mobilized Hg while doing these other protocol. Cutler doesn't think the saunas will help rid the Hg, but I feel it is helping.

I am having a bit of success with the ozone sauna and rife. Now focusing on the methylation. I think Culter is genus, but i had to tailor make my protocol, b/c chelation wasn't enough. I was not getting better even after 1 1/2 yrs.
Cutler also would not recommend methylation protocol, he feels if cheltion is the reason for the methyl cycle damage, and chelation will restore, and after one gets rid of enough Hg, then he can start methyl if in fact it is genetic. I feel for me it is both, so i will handle both at the same time, slowly and carefully.

he is a interesting read esp the sulfur part. he suggest moly but not Nac, sam-e, dmso, cysteine, whey, sulfur foods a full list b/c these sulfur product can cause re distribution of Hg and make one feel so much worse. google the list under,
high sulfur foods list
and it has high and low list of sulfur foods and supplements.

google dr andy cutler and his web site is there.
get the book from him as it is much cheaper than B and N and other places

no doubt my issues is high levels of Hg and a methylation problem, (and all these infections) doing both slowly and safely is the key for me. it is just getting the type and dose of b12, other b's, co factors, mineral , RNA, ect, right, ahhh!!

hope this helps

denise

MEANT TO SAY, CUTLER WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THE METHYLATION PROTOCOL, HE FEELS mercury IS THE REASON FOR THE METHYL CYCLE DAMAGE, AND IF ONE CHELATES, THE METHYL (ALONG WITH GLUTATHIONE) SHOULD BE RESTORED. AFTER ONE CHELATES ENOUGH, IF THE METHY ISN'T RESTORED, AND ONE IS STILL HAVING PROBLEMS, THEN VENTUE TO THE METHYL PROTOCOL. I HAVE BEEN CHELATING FOR 1 1/2 YRS WITH SOME SUCCESS, BUT NOT ENOUGH TO FUNCTION DAILY, SO I AM DOING THIS-WISH I WOULD HAVE STARTED THIS WITH THE START OF THE CHELATION, SLOWLY OF COURSE B/C I HAVE SO MANY INFECTIONS AND THE TOXINS WOULD HAVE FLOWED OUT LIKE OPENING PANDORA BOX. THE PACE OF DETOXING IS LIKE WAITING PAINT DRY BUT IF PAY LIKE HELL IF I INCREASE

Denise,

I read Andy Cutler book (amalgam illness) and consulted with him. In fact, to my opinion, although it's logic and many people success with mercury detox, there are also many others that success with other methods, as natural methods for examples, I cannot say that the same toxins, on the same amount can get out from the body during natural detox (as gerson therapy) but other toxins for sure can and the body can strengthen enough to heal the problems even if not all the bottom line hadn't being solved. We can assume that those people can be also diagnosed as a mercury sufferer.

I tried small amount of dmsa and felt better on the days on but worser on the days off due to muscles weakness. I don't know if it derived from candida burden or sulfur sensitivity. Maybe it's worth trying it with molybendum. I also tried small amount of ALA through the skin and mentally it wasn't good for me. Amalgam removal was a disaster experience, I still have mucus problems that probably caused by candida/fungus growing.

Candida therapy was too hard for me, maybe because of my liver, so I stopped the hard core attempts, at least until the generally situation will improve. I also try some supplement from the methylation method- methylmate B and methylcobmalin B-12 and felt not good after it. I think that maybe the former increase my histamine rate. I need to decrease my histamin, especially when the transition season coming ) : I'm too afraid to continue try directly improve methylation because it also dropped the pottasium rate and there are also ppl with bed experience. What kind of genetic tests you meant to? Sauna, at least sauna that included the head, can mobilize the toxins inside the body and doesn't recommended by Andy Cutler.

Any other advice will welcomed.

.

Hi Denise,
Don't feel hopeless, It's not easy and can take time to find the right process but there are many recovering stories. My situation also had improved due to natural nutrition detox but the amalgam replacements caused also sensitivities that I still have to deal with.
That dmsa challenge test is a disaster because the a lot of toxins going out together. I think that all the problems can connect to each other and can react as a domino. These two treatments- ozone sauna and rife are not light treatments. Is the sauna including the head? Cutler doesn't recommend on it due to negative mental responses. Anyway, in general, when I'm in ther middle of a therapy, I also try to feel if a treatment or a detox not also take strenght from the body and he need a break, to rest, strengten, ect.
***What do you suffer from? do you have high Hg? other infections?
My main symptoms this period are legs aches (between the knee and the ankles) in the mornings, allergy and mucus (fungus) that sometimes cause headeche and muscle weakness, tiredness, nausea and hard menstruation periods. I had symptoms that felt like infection. I didn't see directly high Hg in any test.
The ALA could have been hard for you if the dose way too high and the ALA moves it out of the brain and I wonder if you were feeling that? It is hard on my brain and mentally as well. I can not tolerate it now, but will try again as I reduce my body burden further .
Can one control the dose way? I tried a really small amount a long time ago,about a year ago and mentally it wasn't good for me.

I will continue later to detail..