The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Dizziness and POTS may respond to Choline

Discussion in 'Problems Standing: Orthostatic Intolerance; POTS' started by ahmo, Sep 23, 2015.

  1. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    http://suzycohen.com/articles/choline_bloodpressure_pots/

     
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  2. JamBob

    JamBob Senior Member

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    Interesting - I wonder what the best source of choline would be?
     
  3. panckage

    panckage Senior Member

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    Good point it fails to say if choline needs to cross the blood brain barrier
     
  4. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @ahmo - That's really interesting about choline and POTS - it's such a huge issue for so many here, it would be great if something this simple could help.

    Choline also can improve memory: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130711103239.htm

    My memory improved after I started taking a choline supplement a couple of years ago. This article mentions several good sources of choline.
     
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  5. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    Choline (mixed with vitamin C) was one of the treatments that Dr. John Richardson used over the years, as detailed in his book. There's dosing information in this paper. The form he used was choline citrate. I've been trying this out for a few days but haven't noticed any change in POTS symptoms yet.

    It's probably worth noting too that Abhijit Chaudhuri and Peter Behan were looking into cholinergic dysfunction in this disease back in 1997. They felt that the OI could potentially be explained by this and talk about treating with AChE inhibitors.
     
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  6. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I've been using citicholine. Healthy Origins makes it, I've gone to a bulk powder supplier. Here's a thread w/ some conversation about types of choline, including at the end, link to a further thread.
     
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  7. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I have a different approach. I use an a7nAchR positive allosteric modulator
     
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  8. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    huh? :confused:
     
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  9. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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  10. voner

    voner Senior Member

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    @ahmo,

    thanks for posting this. Pretty interesting. I wonder if this paper also helps explain the mechanism of Pyridostigmine?

    If anyone's interested in the paper they should check the "Would you like to request a paper? thread..
     
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  11. voner

    voner Senior Member

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    here is a quote from the "discussions" section of the paper :

    This study describes a disorder related to choline deficiency in a female, who was diagnosed with dysautonomia and POTS. The analysis of patient blood showed very low amounts of choline and betaine, which suggested impairments in choline-related phospholipid pathways and choline transport activity. Using cells obtained from the patient's skin biopsies, we clearly established that the reduced cellular and mitochondrial choline uptake and reduced choline transporter CTL1/SLC44A1 were re-sponsible for the observed deficiency. This is the first known case of a medical disorder related to transport-mediated choline deficiency.

     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
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  12. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    I'll be looking forward to following your results.
     
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  13. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Its been known that here is an acetylcholine problem in CFS (not an ME cohort nor POTS cohort) since about 2000 based on the research of Vance Spence.
     
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  14. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    I saw Dr John Richardson the year before he died, a few times (utterly charming old man) and took the choline mix but had to abandon it as it did not seem to help at all.
     
  15. Jenny TipsforME

    Jenny TipsforME Senior Member

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    You can also get choline from diet eg eggs, prawns/shrimp, cod, broccoli. That may be a fairly safe way forward to try if you can otherwise eat those things. See http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=50

    BUT if we have this problem
    Would this mean it isn't caused by lack of choline but by problems utilising it? So supplementation is pointless. Or is it a percentage type of thing, so you can only utilise 30% so you need 3x the intake?
     
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  16. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    @halcyon any noticeable differences from the choline yet?
     
  17. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

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    Nothing obvious yet sadly.
     
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  18. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    It may take months of building it up then. Shucky darns.
     
  19. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    @ahmo and @halcyon and whoever else takes choline.. Are you taking betaine too? The study said we are low in choline AND betaine. If I missed this the first time, my apologies.
     
  20. sillysocks84

    sillysocks84 Senior Member

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    "Mestinon (Pyridostigmine Bromide) has traditionally been used to treat myasthenia gravis, but is now sometimes being used to treat POTS patients (Grubb, 2002). Mestinon works by inhibiting the breakdown ofacetylcholine. Acetylcholine is the main chemical messenger of the parasympathetic nervous system. Some POTS patients may have immune systems that are mistakenly making antibodies that are plugging up acetylcholine receptors (Grubb, 2002). Mestinon works to unplug these receptors by allowing more acetylcholine to remain at the neuromuscular junction. Mestinon is particulary useful in patients who have the postviral, paraneoplastic or autoimmune forms of POTS. Mestinon is usually started at 30 mg orally twice a day, titrating to 60 mg orally twice daily, if necessary (Grubb, Kanjwal & Kosinski, 2006"

    This was taken from dinet.org. Does anyone take this medication? Sounds like it could really be helpful in pots.
     
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