The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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Disappointing on CFS by podcast "No such thing as a fish"

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Kalliope, Jun 11, 2016.

  1. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member

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    :( Am a bit disappointed over the latest programme to one of my favourite podcasts "No such thing as a fish". It is a popular podcast with all sorts of fun facts made by researchers of the BBC-programme QI.

    In an interesting conversation about how other senses than hearing can influence our perception of music, suddenly a guest in the programme Tim Minchin (whom google says is an Australian musician and comedian?) starts talking about CFS as an example of how soma and psyche are intertwined.

    "If you have someone with one of those umbrella diagnosis like chronic fatigue, there'll be this outrage if anyone suggests there is a psychological element to their disease...
    These people want it desperately to be a tick or some kind of pathogen but if you tell them its neurological they're like - no it's not all in my head. But it doesn't matter, it's all in your head in the end"

    I know there are numerous examples of this devastating misunderstanding of ME-patients and science on ME. But so sad that misconception is shared also by this otherwise funny and entertaining podcast. :thumbdown:

    If you want to hear, the conversation on CFS starts approximately 18.45. It lasts only a few minutes.
     
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  2. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    Minchin mixes "neurological" and "psychological" wrongly, they are not the same thing in everyday language.
     
  3. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member

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    ...he sums up his own comments nicely here!

    Would it be considered okay to speak about cancer patients in this way? That ultimately everything is "in your head".

    Would it be okay to muse about mental health in this way? Whether it's depression or schizophrenia or whatever? Never mind the diagnosis - it's still all in your head.

    What about alzheimers?

    If you have to make light of the profound suffering and disability of others (while demonstrating woeful ignorance) to make yourself seem erudite and intelligent then, quite simply, you are a complete prat.
     
  4. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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    Minchin probably read that Suzanne O'Sullivan book or Jo Marchant's Cure and now feels qualified to make pronouncements about the nature of illnesses he doesn't have and knows absolutely nothing about (actually less than nothing, as his remarks make clear). He's not alone.

    I see he has a BA in English and Theatre.

    Personally I find him about as funny as candida, but that's probably irrelevant.
     
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  5. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    In slightly related news, I recorded the TV spin off "No Such Thing As The News" last night and started watching it this morning. Unfortunately, it was so unfunny that I turned it off within five minutes (a new record) and deleted it straight away, prior to seeing this. So we aren't talking the pinnacle of talent here.
     
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  6. panckage

    panckage Senior Member

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    Tim Minchin makes fun of everything. I wouldn't take anything he says too seriously. He's a adult-oriented comedian. Why don't we reeducate him that it is a real biological illness via his twitter? I just tried to err... but I'm not very good at twitter. Help me :ill:
     
  7. Hutan

    Hutan Senior Member

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    Yeah, I like quite a bit of his work a lot (and some of it not so much). He is clever, just clearly ignorant about ME.

    He has used his art to be make political statements. See here for example:

    where he was criticising Cardinal Pell who seems to have been complicit in covering up paedophilia in the Australian Catholic Church. The Vatican promoted him to a role in Rome and Pell has said that he's now too sick to travel back to Australia to take part in an inquiry in to sexual abuse of children by priests.

    I agree with @panckage, if we tried to educate Tim without being too earnest, we could end up with an ally. I wouldn't have thought he would have been a supporter of psychosomatic stuff. He has criticised faith healing and praying for cures in his songs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  8. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    tbh, I've always got the impression Minchin was one of those people who believed that being intelligent meant trusting authority. When/if we get authority to recognise that we're owed an apology, maybe he'll follow them. I doubt he'd be a useful ally for any group that really needs a useful ally.
     
  9. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

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    I get the impression he was trying to make a witty point, but somehow missed the mark.
     
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  10. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

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    That's disappointing, I really like Tim Minchin. Worth a try to educate him, as he prides himself on being rational. If that doesn't work he can go and **** himself.
     
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  11. Wolfiness

    Wolfiness Activity Level 0

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    Tbh if I didn't have ME I'd think what he does.
     
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  12. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member

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    Me too. The truth often lies somewhere in the middle of opposite opinions, and thus I would have accepted a psycho-somatic approach as completely reasonable, had I not been following the debate for many years. Would also believed the myth that patients only wants a narrow form for medical research, whilst the psycho-somatic approach searches wider. Even though the truth is that it is biomedical research which finally brings both some diversity into this - and answers.
     
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  13. tinacarroll27

    tinacarroll27 Senior Member

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    We have all been Gas lighted with this illness and that includes society as a whole. You need to be able to question the establishment and look deeper to see the truth of this illness and some people just don't seem willing to do that. To look deeper and question!
    Tim Minchin obviously believes the spin and has never questioned it. I think Steven Fry believes ME is a real biological illness (he twittered once about ME Awareness day, with very supportive comments) and I think he might have seen the film "Voices from the shadows" Maybe someone should send Minchin a copy!
     
  14. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member

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    I'll chip in towards sending him a copy. Too brain fogged to sort it myself but would contribute to the cost.
     
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  15. tinacarroll27

    tinacarroll27 Senior Member

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    I've been tying to find out where you can get the DVD, but no luck. Any one know where you can get one?
     
  16. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member

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    Ah - just saw that the DVD is not available to buy.

    There is a code that allows a free viewing - perhaps we could send him the code and respectfully ask that if he is going to mention the condition in the future that he might watch it first, contact the ME Assoc. , or even join us for a chat here first.

    I don't think it is acceptable to refer ME or pwME in this way (any more than it would be with any other condition) but I would do my brain-fogged best to engage with him; health permitting. I'm sure others, more knowledgeable than I, would too. In fact, kudos to him if he does engage with us.

    http://voicesfromtheshadowsfilm.co.uk/
     
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