Difficulty with Freddd protocol (anxiety)

[Freddd]

Hello everyone,

I've been on freds methylation protocol for the last 2 weeks and getting alot of anxiety that seems dose dependent with the Methyl b12. Here is my log so far with notes ;

Nov 19
100mcg mb12
100mcg metafolin

Nov 20
150mcg mb12
Depressed at night

Nov 21
9am 250mcg mb12
1pm 250mcg
8pm depressed

Nov 22 1000mcg mb12
10am 500mcg methyl b12
10am 100mcg metafolin
1230pm 250mcg mb12
440pm 250mcg mb12
TOO MUCH
8pm Anxiety, heart racing, needed xanax .25mg

Nov 23
720am 250mcg mb12
400mg potassium
3pm 250mcg mb12
400mg potassium
442pm little headache
150mg potassium

Nov 24
8am 200mcg metafolin
8am 250mcg mb12
230pm 250mcg mb12
7pm little speedy seems like threshold dose

Nov 25
100mcg metafolin
250mcg mb12
250mcg mb12


Nov 26
10am 250mcg mb12
150mcg metafolin
4pm 250mcg mb12

Nov 27
10am 200mcg metafolin
10am 250mcg mb12
4pm 250mcg mb12

Any advice? Thanks ahead of time,
Ray

Hi Ray,

There is something I'm not seeing, and that is AdoCbl. This is just a shot in the dark. There can be considerable mood variation because of ratio of MeCbl to AdoCbl and that is largely unexplored. Also, for SOME people also with AdoCbl, taking TMG can actually smooth things out. I started LCF and it about blew my socks off. TMG softened that considerably and calmed things down. Also, another clue is that another person had a similar effect with R-ALA (instead of the usual ALA which is a mix). There is no way to know who might have such a response to either. However, those who get the anxiety might get it from any of several items. If you can get it stable where only carnitine causes anxiety, that can be microtitrated from 100 mcg.

The difficulty is that there are so many possibilities. Good luck.

 

[caledonia]

Stop all methylation supplements.

Take 50-100mg of niacin every 4 hours or even as much as 1 hour or 1/2 hour if necessary. Note that a full pill is usually 500mg. You want to take 1/10 to 1/5 of that.

It may take several days or even a couple of weeks to get everything calmed down, as methylation once it gets started, develops a lot of momentum and self perpetuates even without supplementation.

If you start flushing from the niacin, you're getting close to the end. You can lower the dose and frequency as you go along to stop the flushing. Flushing is harmless and won't hurt you. It can just be a surprise that might worry you if you're not expecting it.

If you're not tolerating niacin, curcumin can also be used, as well as electrolytes which might have become depleted due to methylation startup.

Check out these articles from Ben Lynch for more help:

http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01/

http://mthfr.net/preventing-methylfolate-side-effects/2014/11/26/

My suggestion is not to restart any methylation supplements until you do a ton of research and know what you're doing. I have some helpful videos, articles and links in my signature link.

 

[Matt_C]

I have not had it tested and can't afford it now that it's 200$. All I'm going by is my history and some blood tests. I took high dose injection cyanocobalamin and NAC and a multivitamin with folic acid for years. As for blood tests i had high Homocysteine 11.4(<11.3), high Hemoglobin and high b12 1200 but still had low b12 symptoms. I've stopped NAC only 2 weeks ago and believe my issue was due to my history with those supplements rather than MTHFR. But who knows

You should have another look at 23andme.com, the price has come down again to $99 plus shipping. I just ordered mine a few days ago.

 

[Freddd]

Rayski2 said: ↑
I have not had it tested and can't afford it now that it's 200$. All I'm going by is my history and some blood tests. I took high dose injection cyanocobalamin and NAC and a multivitamin with folic acid for years. As for blood tests i had high Homocysteine 11.4(<11.3), high Hemoglobin and high b12 1200 but still had low b12 symptoms. I've stopped NAC only 2 weeks ago and believe my issue was due to my history with those supplements rather than MTHFR. But who knows

B12 being "too high" is a statistical astraction that doesn't mean that you don't have hundreds of responsive b12/folate deficiency symptoms. That whole idea does damage. In a study in the UK, a study of neuropathy improvement with MeCbl. 62% of the MeCbl responsive persons had serum levels "too high" top qualify for treatment. The average at the beginning was 700pg/ml and the most were 1500+. They responded none the less. The study had admission by symptoms, not tests, proving that the tests are quite useless for predicting results.

Also, CyCbl injections are essentially worthless compared to MeCbl and AdoCbl. Testing doesn't distinguish between active and non-active (junk) cobalamins. NAC can cause all sorts of problems for some people, severe deficiency symptoms.

 

[Rayski2]

You should have another look at 23andme.com, the price has come down again to $99 plus shipping. I just ordered mine a few days ago.

Just checked it's still 199$ for me. Are you using a promo or are you in a different country?

Rayski2 said: ↑
I have not had it tested and can't afford it now that it's 200$. All I'm going by is my history and some blood tests. I took high dose injection cyanocobalamin and NAC and a multivitamin with folic acid for years. As for blood tests i had high Homocysteine 11.4(<11.3), high Hemoglobin and high b12 1200 but still had low b12 symptoms. I've stopped NAC only 2 weeks ago and believe my issue was due to my history with those supplements rather than MTHFR. But who knows

B12 being "too high" is a statistical astraction that doesn't mean that you don't have hundreds of responsive b12/folate deficiency symptoms. That whole idea does damage. In a study in the UK, a study of neuropathy improvement with MeCbl. 62% of the MeCbl responsive persons had serum levels "too high" top qualify for treatment. The average at the beginning was 700pg/ml and the most were 1500+. They responded none the less. The study had admission by symptoms, not tests, proving that the tests are quite useless for predicting results.

Also, CyCbl injections are essentially worthless compared to MeCbl and AdoCbl. Testing doesn't distinguish between active and non-active (junk) cobalamins. NAC can cause all sorts of problems for some people, severe deficiency symptoms.

You're completely right. What I meant by mentioning that I was taking NAC and cyanocobalamin injections was that it would likely cause active b12 deficiency. For high b12 blood test with b12 deficiency symptoms I assumed this was the inactive b12 showing up, another hint I'm active b12 deficient.

What would you suggest I do since methyl b12 and methylfolate are causing anxiety?I remember you saying not to go low and slowly tapering up because the body wouldn't be able to support the healing reaction without enough b12 or folate and one would end up feeling worse with less. I was also taking 1000mg extra potassium gluconate per day while using them. I've been using high dose liver capsules for b vitamins for the last few months and haven't had any anxiety from them. I believe you mentioned liver in an old post.

 

[Matt_C]

Just checked it's still 199$ for me. Are you using a promo or are you in a different country?

I'm in Australia but I don't see why the cost would be different for different countries. Try this link: https://www.23andme.com/en-int/

Edit: actually the web page does say it's for AU, DE, FR and EU. My apologies...

 

[alice111]

@Rayski2 hows it going with the protocol and the anxiety? I have recently reached a point where the anxiety has come back, not sure what to do about it..

 

[Rayski2]

@Rayski2 hows it going with the protocol and the anxiety? I have recently reached a point where the anxiety has come back, not sure what to do about it..

Hi Alice,
I stopped the protocol after my last post on this thread and haven't had an opening in my life to give it a shot again. My anxiety from methylation is completely gone now, however I still have my baseline general anxiety I started out with. I wish I had some advice or encouraging words for you but unfortunately I do not as I haven't been doing any research lately on this. Best of luck to you on your protocol =)

 

[Rayski2]

Okay so I got a 23andme finally and here are the results.
MTHFR C677T (-/-)
MTHFR A1298C (+/-)
MTR A2756G (+/-)
MTRR A66G (+/-)

VDR BSM (+/-)
VDR TAQ (+/-)

BHMT (+/-)
BHMT-02 (+/-)

CBS C699T (-/-)

COMT V158M (-/-)
COMT H62H (-/-)
COMT P199P (-/-)
COMT rs6269 (+/+)

NOS2 (+/-)
ACE (+/-)


Can anyone help me figure out what to take? I've been researching for weeks now after the tests and still can't figure it out.

I'm thinking just try hydroxyb12 first since I had such a bad reaction to methyl b12 and methyl folate. My homocysteine was very high on my recent blood test. Folate and b12 high end of range.

Any and all help would be appreciated

@ahmo
@Freddd
@PeterPositive
@Martial