Differences between HIV/AIDS symptoms and CFS symptoms

[Daffodil]

@JES 90% no way...if that were the case, there would be all kinds of warnings up on websites and in the media. I know it can happen but I would be shocked if it were a high percentage

my CD4 count was in the 300s when I was very sick. now it is 850 and that is from antibiotic treatment. that says a lot, I think

 

[unto]

@JES ,
I can give my testimony and remember the story of the ME; rich history of
small local epidemics worldwide and frequent multiple cases of illness
in the same environment (family, friendship, work ....), then it must consider the onset of flu-like and the fact that it is present in every country in the world ....
Suffice this data to a good doctor to orient the origin of ME

not worth much but I only this : Inquiry on sixteen CFS


researchers should keep in mind that the ME causes a tangle of conflicts of interest .....-what of those doctors who do not want to risk their careers and funds for research; only "touched" by ME fighting tenaciously and using antivirals and antibiotics ...-what governments who: have fewer problems and better, and ME is a problem ...-to say nothing of health and multinational insurance cousins of the drug which have a vested interest in not paying compensation for neurological diseases and to stimulate the consumption of vitamin supplements etc.-to past the sick, as I said, they do not want to be marginalized them detachmentfurther; Imagine a mother who has a child with ME, do not want to play football because you get tired and sweating is exposed to colds, sore throats and headaches ...... to school is hard to study and more ago many absences ... then now also a girl who attends and enjoys it ...., this mother will never be able to say to his son: you also know that I suffer from fatigue as you do .... began before you were born and you've probably contracted from me ..... this mother would rather die of mE rather than being rejected by his son.

Then there are those patients who can not / want to see
reality.......
and those mild cases that are hardly noticeable ...

@seven
you're right infectivity may depend on the location of the infection ..
or simply two different diseases

 

[taniaaust1]

I do not know about this, only a HIV positive person who experienced the situation you described can give this answer. But I still have the impression that we should be seen by doctors who treat HIV. Unfortunately they do not take us seriously because we have the HIV negative blood tests results.

There is one world wide known ME specialist (I forget which one now it is) who is an AIDS specialist who later went on to develop interest in ME and became an ME specialist. If our illness was something to do with AIDS, I'd think she'd be curing all her ME patients but our illness isnt AIDS and hence she's no big standout from other well known ME specialists. She has stated that her ME patients live worst then her AIDS patients do.

 

[taniaaust1]

If ME could be transmitted like that, it would be an epidemic by now. This forum is full of people who are living in a relationship, but haven't transmitted ME to their partner. .

With not knowing what ME is means for all we know they may of transmitted whatever this is to their partners. The thing is it could be like many other viruses where some get severely affected while others who get it never even know when they have it eg EBV and mono for example. Near everyone gets it during their lives (90% of adults tested have had it) but most do not know when they have it, while some such as myself got extremely sick with mono/glandular fever. I was extremely sick for about 10 weeks before I recovered from mono.

So one cant say that people are not catching ME when we do not know what it is and cant test if people did ever get it minor at some point or got it and remained symptomless and had their bodies fight it off properly.

 

[Daffodil]

There is one world wide known ME specialist (I forget which one now it is) who is an AIDS specialist who later went on to develop interest in ME and became an ME specialist. If our illness was something to do with AIDS, I'd think she'd be curing all her ME patients but our illness isnt AIDS and hence she's no big standout from other well known ME specialists. She has stated that her ME patients live worst then her AIDS patients do.

dr. klimas

 

[Daffodil]

@unto if they have been studying us for a long time now, why do you think they havent found the pathogen if it is new, with next generation sequencing?

why did antibiotics take me from almost AIDS level CD4 count to normal CD4 count?

 

[unto]

http://europe.newsweek.com/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-affects-1-50-teens-419365?rm=eu

excuse was that I wanted to post this link ...

 

[unto]

@Daffodil ,
do not quite understand the question, I try to answer:
it is always very difficult to find a new virus ...

 

[Wolfiness]

Hmm. Dr Kaufman told me the same thing. I hypothesized that since the symptoms of a cold are largely due to the response of the immune system to the presence of a virus, the cold virus can come and go and we just don't notice it. He appeared to agree, that this is something like a reverse IRIS (immune reconstitution inflammatory syndrome). IRIS occurs in immunodepressed (e.g. HIV) patients when their immune systems start to function, they get many inflammatory symptoms. This is likely the source of "herxing" in many cases.

I was wondering why some of us feel like they have flu and brain fog and general inflammatory symptoms and some don't. I don't, but I also don't get colds, possibly as Kaufman says because I am hosting but not responding to them, but I'm not convinced. Possibly I am just too ill to meet anyone who has germs, mostly…

 

[Wolfiness]

fever
fatigue
swollen lymph nodes
sore throat
skin rash
diarrhea
dry cough
candida
difficulty concentration
oral herpes
weakness

and noticed that I have/ I had in the last years all of the above mentioned symptoms. However, several HIV tests, repeated in the last 5 years came back all negative. Does anyone know are there any differences between HIV symptoms and CFS symptoms? Are the HIV symptoms the same with the CFS symptoms?

I have extremely severe ME and I don't have any of these symptoms. I just have extreme lack of stamina/exertion intolerance - muscular, cognitive, sensory, emotional, everything.
https://lifewithlimits.wordpress.com/2016/06/29/616/

 

[Daffodil]

@Wolfiness we dont get colds cuz our cytokines are high. i think these are normally released in the presence of infection and they prevent other infections from getting into the cells while you are already fighting one infection.

that is why when you have the flu, you don't get another virus at the same time.

 

[Wolfiness]

Only in the first three years though, according to Lipkin and Hornig, and anyway that wasn't my question. I was wondering why some of us *don't* feel we have fluey/immune activated symptoms or even central fatigue and the rest of you do, and if it's to do with differently functioning immune systems then why do people from both groups equally not get colds? Are the putative upregulators batting them away and the putative downregulators just not responding to them?

 

[ScottTriGuy]

wondering why some of us *don't* feel we have fluey/immune activated symptoms and the rest of you do

My guess, based on Naviaux's results, is that depending on which metabolites one has dysregulated will dictate the symptoms experience - if memory serves, he found over 60 different metabolites that could potentially be dysregulated - the more that are dysregulated, the more severity of symptoms.

 

[Wolfiness]

Ahhh yeah, it was very pick n' mix, wasn't it? There were a few core dysfunctions and the rest were optional

 

[ScottTriGuy]

Yeah, like I don't have pain or cognitive impairment / brain fog that seems so common to others - I don't know how the severely affected folks do it, they are my inspiration.

 

[Wolfiness]

But even with severely affected - I am completely bedbound and I don't have much pain or fog, indigestion, flueyness, tiredness at rest, etc etc. I just can't actually do anything without heinous but mostly muscular PEM.

 

[TreePerson]

@Wolfiness I am a lot like that. Mainly extreme ridiculous muscle fatigue. Not too much pain as long as I'm resting. Although I do get intermittent flu symptoms and a lot of problems with temperature control. Brain fog has been my least troubling symptom but it is getting worse now (I have been ill for 24 years).
How did your illness start?

 

[Wolfiness]

Hi @TreePerson I think it's always been there, getting gradually worse. It really started interfering with life at menarche at 13 but I ignored it because I just assumed that feeling constantly exhausted was what life was like for me. Then my health broke down irretrievably at 19. I keep wondering whether it would be worth testing myself for conventional mitochondrial disease.

 

[TreePerson]

And you can't attribute the breakdown at 19 to any particular trigger? I would say mine came on in stages over the course of about a year. There were possible viral and other triggers. But I recognise your description of completely dominating muscle fatigue.
Maybe you should get the mitochondrial stuff tested if you can get someone to come to you and do it.

 

[Wolfiness]

No, I had a dip into PVF after EBV at 17, but I felt it got better, ish, after 6 months. At 19 it was just that too many demands on constantly declining energy broke me. I'll draw you a graph in a day or two if I have the energy