Did anything stress you out before you got me/Cfs?

[arewenearlythereyet]

After reading the thread above I am nervous to use the word stress so I will clarify. Before I got ill my body was in a state of flight or fight due to my work becoming much more busy at work. I was asked to pick up the work of 2 other members of my team of three that left at the same time. This meant me working 14-16hr days for 6 months. This impacted upon my body via less sleep, more stimulants (caffeine/sugar) and high levels of stress hormones being constantly deployed. So when I say stress I dont mean this was a psychological problem, more that my body was in a constant state of flight or fight. This is governed mainly by the hypothalamus pituitary. This means my body was put under a lot of unnatural "stress". The flight or fight mechanism was never designed to be for periods of months, more to keep you out of harms way. That is why it temporarily shuts down or reduces many everyday metabolic processes with a view to switching them back on/ dialling them back up when the danger has passed.

After the 6 months had passed my workload gradually reduced to the normal 8-10 HR days, and it was then that I contracted noravirus (winter vomiting bug). I sort of recovered from this after about a week in bed. A couple of months later I noticed my immune system seemed to be compromised since small cuts were getting infected and taking 8-12 weeks to heal. I then got go a bout of noravirus again and then the fatigue PEM. I was being assessed for numb hands and feet at the time with the doctor and that was when my diagnosis journey began.

Sorry for war and peace but it seems if you don't put context here sometimes people can take the wrong end of the stick and jump down your throat.

I believe that CRH played a role in weakening my immune system before I got ill and that the noravirus only acted as a switch to keep me in a state of permanent shut down, initially started by the flight or fight response. I also believe that I was vulnerable in any case before all this started. The mechanism for the vulnerability I am yet to discover but this may be genetic and based on an inherent inefficient metabolism somewhere. I am not convinced yet that this is an autoimmune disease proper since this seems not relevant to the sequence of my symptoms and the research is at too earlier stage with very little proof. I currently believe in my case this was a sequence of events that led to me becoming ill rather than sudden onset.

Here's a link for those unfamiliar with CRH

http://www.yourhormones.info/hormones/corticotrophinreleasing_hormone.aspx

 

[lauluce]

Following on from the therapy thread

Obv I had a bad experience with them so I'm not promoting them but just in case they're right did anyone have some sort of emotional trigger?

I kind of did so I thought at first maybe they had a point, I was in my teens and my parents got divorced but knowing that stressed me out didn't really get me anywhere at all

Was there an emotional trigger for anyone else on here?

could you please add a poll to this post?

I experienced severe stress before the onset of my symptoms, due to my mother becaming severly ill, yet luckuly she recovered completely afterwards. I don't think that's casual, but I don't think my ME is caused by an ongoing psychological issue either. I rather think that since stress affects many body systems and process, including the immune system, it can be a possible trigger for a permanent immune and metabolic disorder as ME seems to be according to researcher. I have read for example that an study has been made confirming that post stress depression is caused by an alteration of interleukin-6, being the alteration as organic and permanent to the point that in the mouse model for this kind of depression it is possible to transfer the depression by transplanting the bone marrow of a sick mouse to a healthy one.

 

[lauluce]

That chest pain could have been pleurodynia (Bornholm disease), which is usually caused by contracting coxsackievirus B, a virus linked to ME/CFS.

I developed anxiety symptoms after catching my ME/CFS-triggering virus (most likely an enterovirus like coxsackievirus B); anxiety was one of the first symptoms of my virus; then the ME/CFS came later.

I have had quasy-permanent chest pain since a couple of years ago, that's good information!
You seem to be very knowledgeable about this issues, let me tell you that I had a very weir experience a year of so after my symptoms began, I felt very strong pain in my whole body, to the extent of having trouble moving, which lasted for 10 days of so to disappear and never return again. Do you have any clue to what that could have been? thanks!

 

[Hip]

I felt very strong pain in my whole body, to the extent of having trouble moving, which lasted for 10 days of so to disappear and never return again.

I am not really sure about that one. Muscle pain is a symptom of ME/CFS; could it be that?

 

[lauluce]

I am not really sure about that one. Muscle pain is a symptom of ME/CFS; could it be that?

I dont't thinks it was the case, this pain I'm talking about was a tremendously strong full body muscle pain, similar to the pain you would experience after a muscle strain, but in every muscle. Now that you mention it, I'm remembering now that indeed the pain was stronger at my chest, and it did hurt to breath and move that area. My ME pain, that I've been suffering for more than a decade, it's a not so strong pain in every muscle and articulation, similar to what you feel when having a flu, but is totally different to that 10 day episode

 

[Arius]

I was extremely anxious the day I got sick. I'd also had almost no sleep.

I tend to get sick in response to stress anyway; likely a combination of bad genes and traumas (emotional and physical abuse, for starters) stemming back to childhood that have reduced my "allostatic threshold." Our capacity to handle stress diminishes with each additional trauma. I was arrested, divorced, and generally under intense emotional stress leading up to falling ill.

I don't think it's useful to speak only of emotional stress. Poor sleep, fast food, heavy metal toxicity, alcohol abuse, etc etc all contribute to the "total load" on your immune system.

Eating things that your body doesn't like (bad gas or gut discomfort is a clue) causes inflammation. Your body responds by releasing cortisol, which increases intestinal permeability. What I'm trying to say is that stress in any form, say, inhaling bleach while working for a cleaning company 5 days a week, can make your gut leak. And if your gut starts leaking, you've got junk entering your bloodstream that should never be there, and it can quickly and easily poison your fragile mitochondria. In my opinion, the symptoms of CFS/ME are all fully accounted for by poor gut health and low-functioning mitochondria.

It's important to reduce all (physical, emotional, chemical, etc) stressors as much as possible. Such as:

Chemical Poisons (Cleaning products, pesticides, herbicides, etc)
Mold
Air and Water Pollution
Food Additives (Preservatives are for corpses)
Trauma/Abuse
Heavy Metals (mercury tooth fillings, ie)
Medications
Radiation
Cigarette Smoke
Alcohol
Allergens
Virii/ Infections
Bacterial Overgrowth
GMOs, which are saturated in the neurotoxic carcinogen glyphosate (Roundup). That means basically all corn and soy (which frankly aren't really food anyway). The only "long term" studies done on GM food indicated that they caused stomach lesions in rats. I am convinced that they cause gut dysbiosis (we know that Roundup kills gut bacteria), which causes/contributes to leaky gut.

In addition to avoiding poisons, I recommend meditation and gratitude journalling to everyone who will listen.

 

[ash0787]

That chest pain could have been pleurodynia (Bornholm disease), which is usually caused by contracting coxsackievirus B, a virus linked to ME/CFS.

I developed anxiety symptoms after catching my ME/CFS-triggering virus (most likely an enterovirus like coxsackievirus B); anxiety was one of the first symptoms of my virus; then the ME/CFS came later.

very interesting, again, never heard about it. my philosophy is normally that we shouldn't have to deal with all these things in life and everything should just be simple and no weird problems but I guess this is idealistic rather than realistic.

The pain was very localized and tended to be like a sharp sudden pain like being stabbed I guess, it was sort of in between the ribs about 2 inches below the left nipple and slightly toward the center, didn't realize at the time this was far too low to be the heart, could have saved myself a lot of trouble with a simple google search ...

I think it may have been like a trapped nerve or muscle or something but your explanation is also possible,
it didn't seem quite as extreme as that page suggests though but I remember it being quite consistent and annoying. I had no fever or headache, it came on suddenly after running. I had problem getting the right type of shoes which made me run faster than I was comfortable with, thats what initially made me worry because heart attacks often coincide with exercise.

 

[MeSci]

I definitely had severe stress shortly before becoming ill with M.E., but that doesn't mean that it caused it. I haven't read this whole thread yet, but to get a meaningful answer you will have to subtract the number of people with M.E. and stress from the total number of people with M.E., and the people without M.E. and stress from the total number of people without M.E. or something!

I think it's time for bed...

 

[Dechi]

I had been very stressed and tired for a while before being ill. From work, mostly. I was also in a toxic relationship which put additional stress on me.

This puts a lot of strain on the immune system. When I got the 2nd viral infection (the first one had left me with muscular fatigue in the legs, but I didn't know I was sick and kept going), I wasn't the only one sick. There was stomach flu type illness spreading among the employees at work. My theory is that my immune system was already so beat up from the first viral infection and stressful lifestyle that it just couldn't with it. And that's when the ME developed full blast.

 

[Lissyleigh]

Yes absolutely. I had just started university and was beginning to realise what an awful childhood I'd had. Up until then I was in denial but moving away brought many issues to light. Flu triggered my m.e but I have no doubt the stress played a part especially as I lived my entire childhood in a state of fight or flight. I can't tolerate any adrenaline now or I get much worse.

 

[JES]

Yes absolutely. I had just started university and was beginning to realise what an awful childhood I'd had. Up until then I was in denial but moving away brought many issues to light. Flu triggered my m.e but I have no doubt the stress played a part especially as I lived my entire childhood in a state of fight or flight. I can't tolerate any adrenaline now or I get much worse.

On the other hand, stress and fight or flight is a very natural response that has been a necessary survival mechanism for humans. Back in the ancient days I assume people living in the jungle had to deal with this almost daily when attacked by lions, or when in lack of food, etc. If the fight and flight response functions correctly it shouldn't become an issue. My hunch is more that ME people hyper-respond to stress not because of external circumstances, but as a result of the disease process itself.

 

[Dechi]

On the other hand, stress and fight or flight is a very natural response that has been a necessary survival mechanism for humans. Back in the ancient days I assume people living in the jungle had to deal with this almost daily when attacked by lions, or when in lack of food, etc. If the fight and flight response functions correctly it shouldn't become an issue. My hunch is more that ME people hyper-respond to stress not because of external circumstances, but as a result of the disease process itself.

I just had the results from my SPECT scan. My report is pretty exhaustive and describes major brain functions problems due to hypoperfusion. Among others, abnormalities to the temporal lobe were found, Broadman 38 area. This area is one of the most important of the cortex. The significat deçrease in blood circulation causes many problems, and among them, a potential difficulty to respond to threat. I suppose this also means difficulty to deal with stress.

So this inability to deal with stress, whether physical or mental, has very physical basis. The brain is not functioning as it should. In my case anyways.

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

On the other hand, stress and fight or flight is a very natural response that has been a necessary survival mechanism for humans. Back in the ancient days I assume people living in the jungle had to deal with this almost daily when attacked by lions, or when in lack of food, etc. If the fight and flight response functions correctly it shouldn't become an issue. My hunch is more that ME people hyper-respond to stress not because of external circumstances, but as a result of the disease process itself.

It's unlikely we would have had to rely on flight or fight as often as you might think. We were after all towards the top of the food chain, an omnivore (so didn't have to catch all of our food) and lived in protective groups that had strict hierarchies (so you weren't fighting all the time for dominance of your habitat. I read an article a few months ago that was quite good and equates our overuse of adrenaline to the artificial stimulation of flight or fight from modern life, I think most of it is to do with detachment from group living, lack of sleep and using adrenalin to push on through in life generally (work and play). There's also something about adrenalin being addictive somewhere. I'll try and find it and post was quite interesting ( well I thought it was anyway). Still doesn't explain why some people are more susceptible though.

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

Couldn't find it but will keep looking. Basically most of the thinking goes that the flight or fight response is designed to be a very short term response but modern life pressures means that this is used far more frequently and for a longer duration than it was designed for. The link below is "quite interesting" in terms of how our ancestors may have conserved their adrenalin and exploited their pray. It's a bit brutal but quite revealing:

 

[Dechi]

It's unlikely we would have had to rely on flight or fight as often as you might think. We were after all towards the top of the food chain, an omnivore (so didn't have to catch all of our food) and lived in protective groups that had strict hierarchies (so you weren't fighting all the time for dominance of your habitat. I read an article a few months ago that was quite good and equates our overuse of adrenaline to the artificial stimulation of flight or fight from modern life, I think most of it is to do with detachment from group living, lack of sleep and using adrenalin to push on through in life generally (work and play). There's also something about adrenalin being addictive somewhere. I'll try and find it and post was quite interesting ( well I thought it was anyway). Still doesn't explain why some people are more susceptible though.

On the contrary, I believe we encounter fight and flight situations every day. In fact, every time we have to make a quick and important decision, we rely on this mechanism, whether it's having to decide if we go left or right to avoid bumping into another car, having to choose to confront someone or not say anything, having to argue with your teenager who won't obey rules, ect. Dealing with these situations can leave us feeling extremely tired.

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

On the contrary, I believe we encounter fight and flight situations every day. In fact, every time we have to make a quick and important decision, we rely on this mechanism, whether it's having to decide if we go left or right to avoid bumping into another car, having to choose to confront someone or not say anything, having to argue with your teenager who won't obey rules, ect. Dealing with these situations can leave us feeling extremely tired.

I agree with you....I was talking about when we were cavemen. Modern life overuses flight or fight I agree

 

[Dechi]

@arewenearlythereyet Gotcha ! ;-)

 

[Neunistiva]

It's unlikely we would have had to rely on flight or fight as often as you might think. We were after all towards the top of the food chain, an omnivore (so didn't have to catch all of our food) and lived in protective groups that had strict hierarchies (so you weren't fighting all the time for dominance of your habitat.

Just some food for thought - look at death rates throughout history. Not just tens of thousands of years ago, but basically up until penicilin and modern medicine. Everyone you love constantly dying around you seems pretty stressful to me. (I always think back to an old woman in my grandmother's village who lost 8 children and her husband to Spanish flu)

Maybe I'm biased because I had wonderful childhood and I accidentally happened to be in the least stressful period of my life when I came down with ME/CFS.

 

[Lissyleigh]

All good points and I certainly don't believe stress causes m.e by itself or that it's a factor in every case...as it clearly isn't. But people are wired differently and have different abilities to deal with stress which may contribute to the development of chronic illness in some cases. It can happen in many illnesses not just m.e.

 

[Dechi]

All good points and I certainly don't believe stress causes m.e by itself or that it's a factor in every case...as it clearly isn't. But people are wired differently and have different abilities to deal with stress which may contribute to the development of chronic illness in some cases. It can happen in many illnesses not just m.e.

@Lissyleigh I am curious, how did ME start for you ?