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Diabetic PN vs Non-Diabetic PN: Treatment Differences?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Jorlev, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. Jorlev

    Jorlev

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    Obviously with Diabetic PN there is a blood sugar / glucose issue that would be addressed by a physician. But with regard to the nerve damage itself is there any real difference in what type of treatment or supplements would be helpful to combat or repair the neuropathy. Again, I am specifically interest in PN aspects assuming the diabetic aspects are already being addressed by the physician.

    I assume the B12 / Methylfolate protocol should be equally beneficial for both conditions.
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    HI Jorlev,

    I would agree as far as you go. I had all sorts of peripheral neuropathies etc. Those all healed up in the first year or two. The CNS is far more difficult. All the things for general healing are needed. Omega3 oils, lecithin, zinc etc all all needed. In my impression it was the peripheral nerves healing that needed towards high end of the body dose range I was also running some 3 brands at a time see if I could extend the effects of 2 MeCbl variations. There was nothing conclusive. However, 10-15 mg in 3 doses or so seemed to hit the spot. The AdoCbl made an unexpectedly large effect. That is the inteesting thing about MeCbl. The studies run say that accelerates neurological healing regardless of the cause of damage. The did intentional crush damage in rats sciatic nerve and then wathced how they healed. Also the spinal injecetions of MeCbl in dibetic neuropathy showed the same kinds of gains as did the studies with high dose MeCbl with ALS and MS. Again it is a matter of removing all the blocks to healing. Brand names etc matter. This was one of my many big problems.
  3. Jorlev

    Jorlev

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    When you say 10 to 15mg in 3 doses, do you mean that amount split into 3 doses or do you mean that amount 3 times a day?

    How much adeno are you taking? What ratio methyl to adeno? What brands are currently recognized as good? Is there still a problem with Jarrow?
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Jorlev,

    That was, at the time, 10-15mg was the daily total. I was still having CNS deterioration going on at the same time. When I added the AdoCbl things got better in my body. 3mg each week and 51mg once a month seemed to work ok. Of course it worked better than daily because of the folic acid content which I could do nothing about at the time anyway. All doses as nominal sublingual. I was taking at least Jarrow, ENZY and often checking out some third one. Jarrow MeCbl hasn't recovered that I know of.

    Now I am taking dose 1 - 10mg ENZY and 3.33mg Anabol Dicoplex, dose 2 10mg ENZY and dose 3 - 5mg ENZY and 50mg Kirkland each day. I'm at least treading water with my CNS.
  5. Jorlev

    Jorlev

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    What is the Kirkland product that you're taking 50 milligrams of? And why are you taking it all in the third dose instead of spreading it out throughout the day?
  6. Jorlev

    Jorlev

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    Also how are you taking Anabol Dibencoplex at 3.33mg? I thought they come in 10mg pills?
    Are you breaking a pill into 1/3? That's a neat trick!
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Jorlov,

    I empty part of the capsule onto the spoon. Through practice I can approximate 1/3 of a cap easier than 1/4 of a cap..

    I am taking 50mg of Kirkland B-12 5000mcg methylcobalamin sublingual lot number 000001 8/14 expiration date. It's a brand new item. They are showing up on Amazon for $6 more than in the store for members. 300x5000mcg makes it the least expensive MeCbl on the market at $19 at Costco and even at $25 elsewhere. I take the 50mg as a single dose along with 5mg of ENZY. However, I took the previous 10mg ENZY dose over the previous 2 hours to preload for the push into the CNS that makes a big difference for ME and others with CNS cobalamin deficiencies.
  8. Jorlev

    Jorlev

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    So all told, you're taking 75mg of MeCbl daily.
    What brand and how much Methylfolate are you taking daily?

    I do find it odd that brands should matter as much as they do. One would think that chemically MeCbl or MeFol would have to be the same regardless of manufacturer. The atomic structure should be consistant. Why the differences?

    Are there any brand or form concerns with B2, C or other cofactors to consider? Want to use optimal performance suppliments.
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Jorlev,

    I do find it odd that brands should matter as much as they do. One would think that chemically MeCbl or MeFol would have to be the same regardless of manufacturer. The atomic structure should be consistant. Why the differences?

    This puzzled me a lot too. Then I investigated how b12 is made. It is brewed, like beer or soy sauce. It is a natural product of certain bacteria. The interesting thing to note is that there are half a dozen bacteria species that are used commercially and each company develops their own strains. There is as much difference between batches of b12 as between a the various types of beers and wines and soy sauce. Each bacteria strain produces it's own version of MeCbl, unmarked as to differences. The bilogical testing that may be done is to verify activity. It isn't tested in people with CNS damage and those are the ones in which it makes a huge difference, not in making red blood cells. Wine and beer taste testing is done all the time. Blending whisky takes a lot of experience. There is no taste testing with MeCbl. Except for those who read what I say and find it to work there is no need for taste testing becasue of the assumptions of consistant molecules. Also they can all be affected post brew in refinement etc.

    I have found no differences in B2 but it isn't one of my items of sensitivity. I prefer a C with bioflavinoids.

    Currently I am taking 16,800mcg to 22,400mcg daily in 3-4 doses of 5600mcg each. I have done a lot of trials trying to see what it is that keeps me in a 2 week paradoxical folate insufficiency cycle. I take one dose with my premeal vitamins and meds, one at bedtime and one with each meal. A lot of days I only eat one meal and a little snacking, usually an apple or other fruits.
  10. Jorlev

    Jorlev

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    Very interesting about B12 manufacturing and variety of bacterial strains. I know the majority of B12 a person needs must be ingested but some is made by the body in the intestines. It would be interesting to see if ingesting certain bacterial strains would help in creating additional B12 internally. We eat yogurt for intestinal health. Why not B12 making strains?

    Also, while you may not be sensitive to B2, it is a major component of the methylation cycle, so having the best, whatever that may be, could be of benefit. That includes all the other methyalation cycle components as well.
  11. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Jorlov,

    We do have bacteria thaqt makes b12. It is in the large intestine. The area that absorbs b12 is in the small intestine, backwards from what we would need to be able to absorb our own home grown b12. So it goes down the sewer.

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