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Deuterium detrimental to mitochondria?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by sb4, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:38 AM.

  1. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    Been talk of this in other forums and it ties in to the idea that light, water, and mitochondria are huge when it comes to health.

    Basically deuterium is hydrogen but with a neutron as well as a proton in the center. This makes D heavier the H. It also changes the bond angle between the 2 hydrogens/deuterium in H2O. It changes the absorption spectrum of water (this has to be significant). It does other things like freezes at 4C istead of 0C, changes the surface tension of water and the clusters. I think it changes how H/D functions electrically and a bunch of other stuff as well.

    We all seem to agree that mitochondria are hugely important. Mito pump H/D across the IMM and then allow them to flow back into the cell through the ATPase to produce ATP. As far as I understand it, though could be wrong, because D is heavier it causes problems when pumping or going through the ATPase, like a stutter.
    I think how the water in mitochondria can absorp (red) light will also be affected.

    Normal drinking water is around 150ppm D though this varies with a number of factors (latitude, temperature, etc). Our bodies and other living things naturally depelete deuterium as our healthy bodies measure less D than that of the enviroment.

    Ketogenic fats tend to be deuterium depleted, this will mean the water in mitochondria will be D depleted as fats make a lot of mitochondrial water, this also means you will be drinking less water. It appears plants put their deuterium in fruits so these have higher levels.

    The Rx for this so far seems to be ketosis and drinking DDW (though this is difficult to get). It appears there are other things one can do and I will update this thread if I find them.



    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18815148
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445928/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4917
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3703265/
     
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  2. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166432814004884

    Study shows that mice with DDW (Deuterium Depleted Water) respond to stress better than with normal water and very similar to mice on normal water + citalopram (anti depressant drug).

    The above paragraph in the discussion interests me. Ubiquinol can by significantly affected by even small changes in D it seems. Increased deuterium slows down ubiquinol oxidation, this must mean ubiquinol spends more time reduced, could this result in excess reverse electron flow meaning increased superoxide generation?

    http://www.pnas.org/content/101/36/13138.full

    Difficult understanding this one, but it's the paper referenced above that shows a 440 fold increase in ubiquinol oxidation with 100% H2O compared to 100% D2O.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17415464

    It seems here they looked at how well the rat liver mitochondria ETC responds to either H or D. With D less H2O2 was produced from the added succinic (from reverse electron transport) and more with H. Backing up the previous study claiming less oxidation of ubiquinol.

    http://www.positivehealth.com/artic...d-water-in-treatment-and-prevention-of-cancer

    This article looks at DDW effects on cancer. It shows DDW can shrink tumors and produces significantly better outcomes than conventional treatment alone. It speculates that tumor cells mitochondria can't handle the decrease in deuterium wheras normal cells can. This ties in with what I've read on higher Deuterium being pro growth (kids need it to grow, etc).

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18815148

    DDW on lung cancer patients.

    http://scholarworks.wmich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1115&context=grad_research_posters

    This seems to suggests that most drinking water is around 140-160ppm D, so we would need to find another source to get to <125ppm.
     
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    It's interesting what Wikipedia says about heavy water D2O (ie, water based on two atoms of deuterium and one atom of oxygen):
    However, you find hard hardly any heavy water D2O molecules in the normal water we drink, but more common in normal water is semiheavy water HDO molecules (ie, water based one atom of deuterium, one atom of regular hydrogen, and one atom of oxygen). Indeed, it says here that:
    So the water we drink mainly contains H2O, with one molecule in every 3,200 being HDO (the semiheavy water molecule), and one molecule in every 41,000,000 being D2O (the heavy water molecule).



    It says here that a deuterium-depleted drinking water product called Qlarivia from Romania and containing 25 ppm deuterium (compared to the 150 ppm in normal water) is available for sale here, but costs $90 for 3 liters, so that's far beyond most people's budgets (because people normally consume around 3 liters of water a day from food and beverages).


    I found this video about making your own DDW in the freezer; it's based on the fact that semiheavy water freezes at a higher temperature of 3.8 °C, which is almost 4 degrees higher than the 0 °C freezing point of regular water.

    However, it does not provide any way to check that the water you produce by this simple freezing method is deuterium-depleted.
     
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  4. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4917383/

    Some interesting stuff here with D, increased viral mutation rates, weakend hormones, enzymes changed that affect active sites and increased aging.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445928/
     
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  5. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    They where talking about that over on the kruse forum but there are problems with the surface water getting cool first so not nessacarily getting the D2O.
    Someone mentioned cooling from the bottom that way the water would be cooled more uniformally as the lower density cold water would rise and the warmer water would fall get cooled and repeat. No idea if thats right are not.

    There is a company that measures water https://www.cignaturehealth.com/ and also has a breath test and other things you can use to test your levels.
     
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Note that there are negligible amounts of D2O molecules in normal water; it's the HDO molecules in normal water that have most of the deuterium.
     
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  7. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    I am aware but you are right, I was just being lasy though I now see I can just as easily abreviate to HDO :thumbsup:
     
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    As an aside, it's amazing that the deuterium found in just 1 liter of normal water would provide the same energy as 500 liters of petrol (gasoline). 1

    So you can see how our energy problems would be solved once we figure out how to create a controlled fusion reaction which utilizes this energy within deuterium.
     
  9. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    Come across Deuterium depletion and HBOT a couple of times

    http://sidmap.eu/wp-content/uploads/pdf/Science_Friday_Dec13_2013_SIDMAP-EU-Combined.pdf

    On here they deuterium deplete with HBOT and ketogenic diet.

    and the same in here

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987715004399

    I am not sure how it works though I`ve heard that O2 combines preferentially with D (as opposed to H) to form HDO. Could the extra oxygen in blood from HBOT get in to cells where it increase ETC flow using fat (from keto which is deuterium depleted compared to carbs) as the fuel to create DDW inside the cell, replacing higher D water?
    I don't know at this point but it seems to make sense and would perhaps suggest that high carb and HBOT might make you have higher D in cells. IDK but fat does require more O2 than carbs.

    @Jesse2233
     
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