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Deteriorating handwriting - is this an ME symptom?

Discussion in 'Neurological/Neuro-sensory' started by Sasha, Jul 5, 2011.

  1. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Over the last six months (possibly longer), I think that my handwriting has deteriorated, both in its overall appearance and in that sometimes I malform individual letters in the middle of a word (for example, I might be writing the word "label" and the "b" will be malformed). It has got to the point that if I am writing just the few words needed for a cheque, or an address on an envelope, or a greetings card message, I have to concentrate hard to make sure I don't mess it up with an error. It's only now that I can see that this isn't normal and not due to just not writing by hand very often any more.

    It started gradually and has deteriorated so I don't think it's a stroke but I'm aware it could be a symptom of other things.

    Howver, having googled a bit, I've found this symptom among a list of ME symptoms in an article by Dr Betty Dowsett but I don't remember seeing it anywhere else.

    Is this really accepted as an ME symptom? I'm going to my GP tomorrow to ask about it, because if it's something else and treatable I want it investigated but I expect it's the sort of thing that will get me referred to a neurologist or (if I'm unlucky) a neuropsychiatrist and I want to go in well-informed.
     
  2. Overstressed

    Overstressed Senior Member

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    Hi Sasha,

    I've noticed this too some time ago. It got better now, and I think it got better since I started Gc-Maf. At one point, I was even writing more badly than my family doc, and believe me, you can't decrypt that.

    To answer your question, yes I think it's a symptom, perhaps of the CNS ?

    Take care,
    OS.
     
  3. kat0465

    kat0465 Senior Member

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    Just another weird symptom, I used to have really Good handwriting. But now it looks horrible, barely legible :( and the worse I feel the worse the writing is.
    I used to journal everyday,but I can hardly read what I'm writing anymore :/ ask your dr for sure tho, I've never told mine about it. Just figured it was part of the disease.
    If I told her every symptom, I'd be in her office all day. I have the lesions on my brain, so I figured it was neurological....sigh
    Maybe your doc will have some answers for ya.good luck.

    Kat
     
  4. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    That should become the test from now on! :D Glad yours has improved.

    That's interesting - I'm just starting on Freddd's B12 protocol and just asked him if you could tell from symptoms whether you had a CNS/CFS B12 deficiency or just a tissue/serum one. That'll be a "yes" then!

    I haven't seen this symptom in the Canadian Consensus Criteria, for example, and don't recall it in any of the others (but may have forgotten). The CCC for the neuro bit are:

    5. Neurological/Cognitive Manifestations: Two or more of the following
    difficulties should be present:
    confusion,

    impairment of concentration and short-term memory consolidation,
    disorientation,

    difficulty with information processing, categorizing and word retrieval,

    perceptual and sensory disturbancese.g., spatial instability

    and disorientation and inability to focus vision.
    Ataxia, muscle weakness and fasciculations are common.
    There may be overload1 phenomena: cognitive, sensorye.g., photophobia andhypersensitivity to oise and/or emotional overload, which maylead to 1)crash 2) periods and/or anxiety. (Carruthers et al. (11)​

    So nothing about loss of fine motor control (which is what handwriting problems are supposed to be about).
     
  5. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    Yes that happens with ME. I ended up with writing that looked like a 4yr olds (no exageration) .. i couldnt do the round circles in the letters at all and it was so hard for me to coordinate my hand well (and on top of all that I was getting spasms too causing my hand to shoot off the page). I got to the point where I couldnt sign my name. I went a long time where I couldnt hardly fill out forms as i couldnt keep my writing anywhere on a line and readable, my individual letters all became very large and wonky in my effort to coordinate them.

    ( I bawled my eyes out one time when I was on a plane and they told me I couldnt fly unless I filled out a form taking away responsiblity if something happened to me on the flight as at the time.. I couldnt write.. i think i ended up signing the form with a shaky X).

    Nowdays I can write again.. but still cant write long amounts easy but the reason for that nowdays is it gives me wrist pain rather then that I have writing issues.

    Take care if you can to not over doing things. Those neurologicals symptoms can get real real bad and leave you not capable of doing anything.

    (I myself found I got like a complex of neurological symptoms..not just one.. they got much worst then just having trouble writing.. you have find your hands going past cups when you try to grab the handles.. hands suddenly giving way while holding things etc etc Loosing fine motor skills can be just a start of far worsening neuro issues).

    You may also loose ability to coordinate your fingers to type (I got so I had a period in which I was unable to type and would fumble all over the place on the keys.. near impossible to get fingers going down on right ones.. The neuro symptoms can be as restricting lifewise as the "exhaustion" symptom.

    Note.. if your condition does worsen.. like any symptom it is likely to pass be in days, weeks or months as long as you dont keep on excerting so think probably "temporary" and dont try not to let it distress you.
     
  6. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Yep I have it too Sasha - though told reactive osteoarthritis I well know some damage to nerves along the way.
     
  7. SpecialK82

    SpecialK82 Senior Member

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    I have these problems too, and it all started with the illness. My hand muscles are so stiff and I've lost some coordination, my writing is very bad. I actually found something that I had hand-written before my illness started and I wondered at first who had written it! It is so completely different now. I began to struggle with spelling around the same time.

    I think it's all CNS problems also, just another lovely symptom, arrgh. If something has to look really nice, I usually ask my husband to write it.
     
  8. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Minerals to Protect Brain from Toxicity

    Hi Sasha,

    I've gone through cycles where my eye/hand coordination becomes stressed. During these times, my hand feels weak and unable to process neurological impulses properly, making handwriting quite difficult. Thankfully, I've always come back out of these down cycles, which seem to correspond with how well I'm doing in general.

    My neurological system is feeling stronger these days, and have enjoyed being able to write fairly well at this time. I attribute this to some Rife frequencies I'm targeting for Lyme, and the minerals lithium orotate and molybdenum that are very helpful in protecting the neurological system from toxicity.

    Best Regards, Wayne
     
  9. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Wayne - it's great to hear your thoroughly experienced/reasoned input - will take much note.
     
  10. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Wow, so many people with this symptom! What interesting replies.

    I'm really wondering why I haven't seen this on any ME symptom list - you'd think it would be a useful one on a checklist. I had been hoping to show my doctor an official set of ME criteria (not the dodgy UK NHS current one) and maybe be able to point this one out (thereby also reinforcing in his mind that this is a neuroimmune disorder).
     
  11. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    :p cause there are too many symptoms!

    A good symptom list which Ive given to quite a few doctors as its based on studies done, is at http://wwcoco.com/cfids/bernesx.html
     
  12. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Thanks, tania - interesting that it's not on there either - I wonder if it's just one that doctors don't ask about very often or maybe that patients don't volunteer. I've had weird symptoms like parasthesia (numb lips when I'm tired!) that I've reported to my doctors but this handwriting thing I just thought was lack of practice until very recently.
     
  13. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    Its probably a symptom most of us dont mention to our doctors as we have others which bother us more. I never mentioned it to any of my doctors (probably more then half my symptoms I never mentioned to my doctors).

    Have you looked at the symptom list on the hummingbird ME site? They used to have an even more complete one there then the link I gave (but i dont think they had that one on theirs either).
     
  14. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    I just looked up that symptom list for you. You will need to scroll about one fiveth down the page before the list really starts http://www.hfme.org/themesymptomlist.htm

    she's got the handwriting issue on the list "Central visual dysfunctions: visual comprehension dysfunction, reading ability loss or difficulty, writing ability loss or difficulty, distance or spatial dysfunction, "

    "See also the COGNITIVE & NEUROLOGICAL DYSFUNCTIONS section for more on difficulties with reading and writing " and it says in that area

    "Handwriting may also change completely with the onset of illness, may be deformed in a way consistent with brain damage (this may wax and wane with the severity of the illness)
    "

    The hummingbirds list is probably the most comprehsive symptom list about.
     
  15. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    I suppose it's become prominent in my mind because my mother's handwriting has noticeably deteriorated lately but she's 80!

    The Dr Dowsett list is from the hummingbird site - that seemed to be the only officialish ME site where I could find mention of the handwriting issue.
     
  16. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    Thanks again! Here's the excerpt for people who don't want to follow the link:

    "Handwriting may also change completely with the onset of illness, may be deformed in a way consistent with brain damage (this may wax and wane with the severity of the illness)".
     
  17. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    One of the neurological problems that may develop Sasha (and comes under) - I've had a range of thoughts from "thinning of the myelin sheath" to typical UK's psychos (if one is unlucky enough) following collapses to all in the mind. Nevertheless this is primarly an infection of the CNS.
     
  18. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    I have not seen this happen, but I take so many supplements to help my brain, antioxidents etc for the nervous system, they all help. No fog or problems thank goodness. For me, it is a matter of getting all I need to support all aread of my body.
     
  19. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    My handwriting has deteriorated, been doing so for years. Not just in terms of sloppiness, but I will sometimes leave out the middle letters of a word, or combine two words. I also forget completely familiar spellings. To control my writing so it is at all legible and correct, I have to slow way down and concentrate, whereas it used to be automatic of course. My typing is also slower and more difficult.

    Similarly, have coordination problems with eating and can make errors too.

    Too much to describe it all.
     
  20. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    my formerly legible handwriting has turned into chicken scratches. also I leave out letters, can't remember how to make letters, can't spell things I actually know how to spell, etc. typing also has issues (usually you can't tell because I use the backspace since I'm aware others, particularly those with brainfog, will have difficulty reading, if I leave in all my typos).

    someone said you could tell people with ME because the quality of handwriting would deteriorate over time while they were writing by hand (I took it to mean like when taking notes at a class or conference)
     

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