Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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dessicated thyroid and sirtuins?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Kimsie, Jan 24, 2015.

  1. Kimsie

    Kimsie Senior Member

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    I am wondering if dessicated thyroid has an effect on sirtuin activity. The first part of the following probably won't appear to have much to do with ME/CFS but bear with me until the end because I think that it might be useful to some people with ME/CFS.

    6 years ago my son with schizophrenia started taking dessicated thyroid. We were hoping that it would help him to be able to stop taking so many energy drinks because we knew that they made his symptoms worse and we had seen some studies where people with schizophrenia were benefited by taking thyroid. Some months later he actually went off medication and was doing well, but for some reason I didn't connect it with the thyroid, maybe because I didn't realize that he was still taking it in large doses. After some weeks he ran out and later his symptoms returned but we didn't know why at the time.

    Recently he started telling me that he remembered running out of the thyroid before he relapsed and he actually got some dessicated thyroid himself and started taking it and it seems to be helping him. I am pretty sure now that the dessicated thyroid helps him.

    Thyroid as a treatment for schizophrenia has never caught on, apparently because no one has any idea of how it could possibly help because the people in the studies had normal thyroid levels and also, it only helped about 45% of the people in the study. Besides this, there isn't really a lot of money in dessicated thyroid so there is less interest in funding studies on it.

    I have been thinking about how thyroid could possible help in the light of my hypothesis and what I have learned lately about the methylation of histone tails and one interesting thing is that dessicated thyroid appears to help both under and overmethylated people, since according to Bill Walsh paranoid schizophrenia is a sign of overmethylation and my son is definately undermethylated, yet there are many reports of people with paranoia who are helped by dessicated thyroid.

    This web page has a list of things that can supposedly be treated with Armour thyroid and the list not only includes ME/CFS and schizophrenia but quite a few other conditions that cover a pretty wide range of symptoms. (I have no idea where they got their information) This is leading me to consider whether dessicated thyroid has an effect on sirtuins because it appears that sirtuins can have a wide range of effects and if thyroid has a normalizing effect on them in people with these illnesses, well, all I can say is that would be incredible, even if it only helps 45% of the people affected.

    Has anyone here tried rather large doses of dessicated thyroid? The range listed in the SZ study was 120 to 1200 mg per day but most of them took no more than 600 mg per day, and my son is taking a little over 600 mg of dessicated thyroid a day right now. (This is dried thyroid, not some chemical component of thyroid.)
     
  2. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    Southern California
    @Kimsie - Hi Kim - I've been taking 130 mg. of dessicated thyroid (Naturethroid) for many years. I just had labs done and my TSH was 0.15 (which my doctor says is meaningless - it just tells you what the pituitary thinks about it, something like that). My Free T4 was 0.9 (range 0.8 - 1.8) and T3 was 4.2 (range 2.3 - 4.2). He said to keep on with the 130 mg. I'm taking. I know this is not the high dose you are talking about --
     
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  3. Kimsie

    Kimsie Senior Member

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    I have been talking with S and we are not really sure whether he is over or undermethylated because he has about 30% of the symptoms from each category and he has never had his histamine levels checked (low histamine means overmethylator).

    From everything I read I would hypothesize that the dessicated thyroid could be helpful for overmethylators, but not for undermethylators and this fits in with the 42% that Walsh has listed for SZ overmethylators. (Undermethylators are 28%). There is definitely a connection between sertuin activity and thyroid function.

    I currently believe that low NAD levels are affecting sirtuin expression (which could account for low SOD2) in at least some people with these illnesses, but I still haven't figured out how this all fits together. I don't know if taking thyroid can decrease the expression of some sirtuins, or if it is the effects of high TSH that is causing some symptoms, which might be the case in schizophrenia.

    If thyroid affects sirtuin activity, it should lower sirt1 activity.
     

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