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Depression - or inflammation

Discussion in 'Cognition' started by Marco, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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    Is depression one of your symptoms and have SSRIs been either ineffective or have become ineffective?

    This isn't new but is a light treatment of quite a body of research which suggests at least some cases of depression or depression arising as a co-morbid symptom is the result of systemic inflammation with both TNF-alpha and Cox-2 implicated.

    Depression, Inflammation, Immunity and Infection

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...epression-inflammation-immunity-and-infection

    One man's opinion of course but the issues are explored in much more detail in Danzer et al.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2234599/
  2. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Actually, SSRIs are anti-inflammatory. And yes, depression always involve inflammation, but there seem to be more to the story, as traditional anti-inflammatory drugs have failed to show efficacy in depression.
  3. Waverunner

    Waverunner Senior Member

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2234599/

    Very interesting. It seems that this antibiotic has more positive effects than we thought. I even have a full bottle of Minocycline here but can't take it because of tolerance problems.
  4. svetoslav80

    svetoslav80 Senior Member

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    This claim is unsubstantiated.
  5. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    I believe it isn't. No one is saying that inflammation is the cause of depression, but when someone is depressed, there are changes in inflammatory cytokines, similar to what we describe as inflammation. These are some of the physiological biomarkers of depression; a physiological correlate of the mental feeling of depression, if you will.

    Here are a few articles, but there are plenty more:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19150053/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21671010/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21897249/
  6. svetoslav80

    svetoslav80 Senior Member

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    I still doubt but thanks for the links. It was interesting to read.
  7. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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  8. svetoslav80

    svetoslav80 Senior Member

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    That's why when a CFS patient goes to doctor they tell him "you're not sick, you are depressed" :>
  9. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Well, that would be an oxymoron - depression IS sickness. A good doctor should be able to distinguish between the two. There are symptoms that overlap, like fatigue, but OI and PENE are unique symptoms of ME/CFS. Also, they have different cytokine profiles:

    An intriguing and hitherto unexplained co-occurrence: Depression and chronic fatigue syndrome are manifestations of shared inflammatory, oxidative and nitrosative (IO&NS) pathways.

    Maes M.

    Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry. 2011 Apr 29;35(3):784-94. Epub 2010 Jul 4.

    Abstract

    There is a significant 'comorbidity' between depression and myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS). Depressive symptoms frequently occur during the course of ME/CFS. Fatigue and somatic symptoms (F&S), like pain, muscle tension, and a flu-like malaise, are key components of depression. At the same time, depression and ME/CFS show major clinical differences, which allow to discriminate them with a 100% accuracy. This paper aims to review the shared pathways that underpin both disorders and the pathways that discriminate them. Numerous studies have shown that depression and ME/CFS are characterized by shared aberrations in inflammatory, oxidative and nitrosative (IO&NS) pathways, like systemic inflammation and its long-term sequels, including O&NS-induced damage to fatty acids, proteins and DNA; dysfunctional mitochondria; lowered antioxidant levels, like zinc and coenzyme Q10; autoimmune responses to neoepitopes formed by O&NS; lowered omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid levels; and increased translocation of gram-negative bacteria. Some IO&NS-related pathways, like the induction of indoleamine 2-3-dioxygenase, neurodegeneration and decreased neurogenesis, are more specific to depression, whereas other pathways, like the 2'-5' oligoadenylate synthetase/RNase L pathway, are specific to ME/CFS. Most current animal models of depression, e.g. those induced by cytokines, are not reminiscent of human depression but reflect a mixture of depressive and F&S symptoms. The latter symptoms, sometimes called sickness behavior, differ from depression and ME/CFS because the former is a (sub)acute response to infection-induced pro-inflammatory cytokines that aims to enhance recovery, whereas the latter are characterized by long-term sequels in multiple IO&NS pathways. Depression and ME/CFS are not 'comorbid' disorders, but should be regarded as 'co-associated disorders' that are clinical manifestations of shared pathways.

    PMID 20609377
  10. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    My antidepressants were working great until about 4 months ago. I had stopped probiotics for about 5 weeks and then started taking them again. Within a few days I became depressed rather abruptly this went on for 3-4 weeks before I stopped the probiotics. It took a few weeks for the depression to clear (which makes sense since probiotics stay in the body even after you stop taking them). I had also been taking immune system supplements at the time and had stopped those as well. I thought maybe it was the immune system supplements causing the depression due to a "cytokine flare" so I started the probiotics again and the depression started again like the first time. I stopped the probiotics within a week of starting them and the depression began to clear within a week of stopping them. A few weeks later I decided to take some supplements to kill pathogens since I thought that was the reason the probiotics were causing the reaction. I started to get depressed again and it flared up especially bad after taking some very potent oregano oil extract. It seems I was on the right track with the cytokines because I realized that both the probiotics and anti pathogen supplements were causing a Herxheimer reaction which then caused inflammatory cytokines and certain cytokines have been linked to depression. My depression hasn't improved much this time since stopping most of my probiotic, immune, and anti-pathogen supplements. I wonder if all the stress on my body over the past 4 months or so has set off a reaction in my body. CNS and brain inflammation have been coming up in my research lately. I'm not sure where it will all lead.
    merylg likes this.

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