Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
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Depression? Adrenal Fatigue?...not sure.

Discussion in 'Adrenal Dysfunction' started by Misfit Toy, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. hurtingallthetimet

    hurtingallthetimet Senior Member

    just wanted to say hello spitfire and send you hugs : )
    depression is a horrible thing..ive had it for awhile..but got much much much worse after becoming ill...

    i didnt feel like reading everyones replies but looks like youve gotten alot of suporrt and advice..

    i take depression medications and xanax for the panic/anextiey helps alot but cant take when drive..and thats when alot of my panic and anxiety happnes...whith going anywere...and its always busy for me in summers due to kids being out of school and trying to get appointments done wiht all them etc...had to take one to dentist again today and another to doctors for something...i am beyond wore out....was so tired just got pizza for dinner...

    it does wear you out being stressed and then whne you do try to do anything liek the concert you spoke of it seems always a crash afterwards...its sad that these illness are so misunderstood by others and often acted as if they are nothing but if anyone who laughs at these illness had to walk a day in our shoes they would see..that even trying to do something normal like going to a concert to have some joy can make you feel like you are dying...its not normal...i know its not because i use to be healthy...

    hang in there and hope you feel better : )
    The Spitfire likes this.
  2. CAcfs

    CAcfs Senior Member

    I can't really relate to sleeping only a tiny bit then waking......but I really like Ambien for sleep. Have you tried that? It really makes me feel tipsy for like 10-20 min, then I DO fall asleep. I have been getting anxiety lately, and it is enough of a kick in the head to calm my nerves and knock me out to sleep land. Sometimes I will get up during the first 20 min and have a bowl of cereal, because food in the tummy (esp carbs with a little fat) then pushes me more in the direction of sleep, if the Ambien is not doing its job enough. I can't find anything else as useful as Ambien. Lunesta gives me a massive headache, and is not as powerful for me.

    During the day, when you are feeling depressed and bone tired, have you tried caffeine, specifically coffee? I find it really useful for both of those problems. I think it works beyond a normal stimulant, to help dysautonomia, and I find it literally BRIGHTENS my mood. I have found some brands make me moreso agitated, but others really just give me energy and brighten the mood, so you may need to experiment with like generic Albertsons vs. Millstone Columbia vs Millstone flavored vs Dunkin Donuts etc etc. I will find a brand that works, but then after like a month it might cause agitation, so I'll switch brands until I find one that gives energy (some do nothing!) but doesn't increase anxiety or agitation. I think it depends on a lot of factors, and the caffeine level in the roast is just one factor, so it's often just about experimentation with coffee.

    Those are my two pieces of advice. Drink your coffee 8-12 hours before you wanna go to bed. Then at night, Ambien, followed by optional sugary/carby/treat 15 min later (ambien may be best on empty stomach so sometimes you need to wait for it to kick in, then eat). For coffee, you can brew a big pot then keep it in the fridge for the next day. Heating it in the microwave (not in the glass...duh) can make it bitter, so don't overheat, but a little sugar and creamer will fix that somewhat.

    So far I like coffee better than anything I've tried. Acai by NOW helps me too. I find it's crucial to take something that brightens my mood enough so I can get out and take a walk.

    OH, third suggestion.....FIND SOMETHING ON TV THAT MAKES YOU LAUGH, and WATCH IT!!!! With all the drama and indecision, you need "break time", where you aren't thinking about the apartment drama or trying to decide anything, and you need to spend that time LAUGHING. I like TMZ for that. I also like watching Bravo. I am indecisive and depressed too.....funny, light TV shows save me. Some people like Jay Leno, etc. I watch them while drinking my coffee, then I watch them again at night. Just figure out what makes you laugh.
  3. jeffrez

    jeffrez Senior Member

    You're definitely not alone. How's the relaxation going? Hope you're feeling better this week. :)
  4. manoka


    Too bad that spitfire doesn't seem to read her interesting thread anymore.
    But I'm sure others with similar issues do.

    Nevertheless I would like to add, that chemical sleeping pills are not suitable for chronic insomnia - besides their habituation- and dependence effects, they induce no restorative quality sleep, but rather just knock you out more like a faint.
    I'm surprised with all the talk about hormones that nobody mentioned melatonin.

    Besides this, the most dramatic positive effects with my CFS like symptoms I just recently experienced during a three week visit to my parents, where I almost completely recovered - not because my relationship with them is so good, fortunately it's not too bad either, but probably because I moved from a (cool) humid climate to dry (cold) climatic conditions, and the reasonably more demanding social environment - which is something none of the dozens of the tried remedies and supplements did even to a slightest extent.

    Therefore I can very much recommend, if nothing else helps, to try a trip to a place with a dry climate (with usually low air moisture) and to a social environment, where you have, or preferably want to get up in the morning and where you don't take naps during the day - at least not more than a short one after lunch.

    I suspect that my symptoms are very much psychologically/emotionally induced, as I was doing the same job living in the same place for almost twenty years, which made me end up feeling like a robot and burned out - even though the job was quite healthy otherwise.

    Although I suffered from low energy at least since adolescence, it was some chicken I ate which was probably heavily loaded with antibiotics, what caused the lot more severe issues I experienced for more than the past half year.
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    australia (brisbane)
    no restorative sleep with sleeping pills are better then no sleep at all. I suppose we cant get quality so we go for quantity. Those of us with bad insomnia from cfs/me dont get restorative sleep even without sleep meds, possibly linked to the sleep centre in the hypothalamus damaged by cfs/me. Also sleep issues occur due to inverted cortisol pattern which is common in adrenal dysfuntion.The z drugs like zopiclone and zolpidem are supposedly meds that dont change ones normal sleep architect??? Alternating sleep meds is the best way to avoid needing to increase dosages etc meds like baclofen, trazadone and mirtazapine are suppose to help one reach the deeper stages of sleep?? I have found phosphatidyleserine helpful with night time cortisol and has helped improve my sleep quality. Melatonin for some reason just isnt strong enough for many of us but i have found tryptophan in doses of 3000mg helpful and this can increase melatonin and serotonin levels.

    Its an interesting subject, but what works for one doesnt always work for another or work for long, constant trial and error to treat it, i find??
    taniaaust1 likes this.
  6. adreno

    adreno PR activist

    The Z drugs and benzo's do impair slow wave sleep (SWS), but like heaps says, some sleep is better than no sleep at all. There are other drugs that might help though, such as gabapentin or doxepin. Glycine is an effective supplement for sleep.
  7. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

    Sth Australia
    I think most of us try melatonin.. some of us find it does help some while others dont. Many of us also have to take a combo of sleep things eg melatonin AND other pills for sleep to get "some sleep". As others have said... any kind of sleep is better then no sleep at all.

    Also there are what I'd call good and bad ways to be taking sleeping drugs "for sleep".. eg taking just once or twice a week to at least get a better sleep once or twice a week, rather then taking daily and being more at risk of those drugs can be a quite good thing for most people who have severe sleep issues to try. Ive taken both melatonin AND benzo drugs (Temazapam) at the same time just to get some sleep. Melatonin is mostly known for helping bring the sleep cycle forward for UP TO TWO HOURS, so often wont be at all enough for those who have a severely reversed sleep cycle and say cant get to sleep till say 6.30am hence would then only bring it forward to about 4.30am (and of cause it wont help those who have insomina which is unrelated to being low on melatonin).

    For myself pills which induce sleep, 3g melatonin and also anti histamine pills were the answer to my sleep issues and helped me greatly. Lack of sleep was really running my body down. These had to be used in combinations.

    Sounds like you may be reacting to molds in your own environment (hence moving to a dry place helped) or may have depression playing a big part in your illness (hence getting away may of done you some good. Take care that you havent been ME/CFS misdiagnosed).

    best luck with getting and staying better
    merylg likes this.
  8. manoka


    Thanks for your inputs!
    Even though some of it sounds like pharma-lobbyism, I can understand that some may be desperate enough to go to great lengths for some relief.
    I personally believe that chemical drugs are mostly contraindicated, especially with fatigue issues, as they pose quite a burden on the liver, kidneys and other organs.
    One may also consider that the fatigue very often actually may be caused by exposure to chemical pollution of the environment and foodstuffs.
    This may be the case (as well).
    I haven't been diagnosed with CFS. Because of the symptoms I just suspected it to be something like CFS. It actually may be rather (or also) adrenal fatigue, as I just yesterday read about the symptoms like dizziness when standing quickly, blurred vision and difficulty staying asleep (waking up during the night), among others. The latter I am fortunately able to minimize through behavioral measures "... like keeping a regular sleep schedule, avoiding stimulating or stressful activities before bedtime, and cutting down on stimulants ..." ( ).

    I would think that anybody who is chronically not getting any sleep at all definitely should be examined in a sleep laboratory.

    Another strange thing I noticed is that all of a sudden hardly ever visible veins on my forehead became very conspicuous, but not because they are engorged with blood, but because they appear to be deflated and empty. I wonder whether this could be a sign of anemia.

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