Depression? Adrenal Fatigue?...not sure.

[jeffrez]

I agree. He knows my hormones are low. They are super low. But, the stuff he has put me on in the past made me sicker. The pregnenelone, the dHEA, the estrogen. I am in perimenopause. I get my period sometimes every 2 weeks. Problem is, I don't do well on hormones. NOT AT ALL. I can't take the pill. Miladregen can be too much for me, seriphos is too much for me. I go to Clymer Healing Research Clinic or Woodlands and I see Dr. Kracht. Unfortunately for him, I am not an easy case. Too much of anything can make me nuts.

I see. That's really rough to be that sensitive, I can definitely relate.

If you've gone to Clymer I assume they've done an ASI, then. Can you post the results, along with any other relevant labs you might have?

 

[Ema]

I agree. He knows my hormones are low. They are super low. But, the stuff he has put me on in the past made me sicker. The pregnenelone, the dHEA, the estrogen. I am in perimenopause. I get my period sometimes every 2 weeks. Problem is, I don't do well on hormones. NOT AT ALL. I can't take the pill. Miladregen can be too much for me, seriphos is too much for me. I go to Clymer Healing Research Clinic or Woodlands and I see Dr. Kracht. Unfortunately for him, I am not an easy case. Too much of anything can make me nuts.

I am sorry that you are struggling right now. I recognize so much truth in some of the things that you write. I will hope for this bad patch to pass quickly and for you to find some peace of mind and rest.

Ten years ago, I lived in a major US city with an amazing job and a great partner. I would never have predicted where I am now then. But the same goes for ten years from now in the future...it's not easy to see things getting better sometimes, but the truth is that we NEVER know how things will actually work out. You can't predict better or worse with any degree of certainty. You could spend your whole life with someone great and they could still die before you. Ultimately there are no guarantees about these things. I may or may not be able to accept the things that happen to me but I will try my darn-dest to be resilient and roll with the (seemingly never-ending) punches.

I've heard good things about Clymer but I'm wondering if maybe a switch is in order? Sometimes when I start to feel like I've burned out a doctor with all my "difficult" symptoms, it helps to find someone else who can carry the baton of hope for a little while. It's important to have a doctor that is still hopeful for you, I think, because sometimes it is so hard to carry on with hope ourselves.

I agree with Jeffrez above about the saliva cortisol test. I would get one done, like, yesterday. It's clear that you are at the end of your rope and cortisol/adrenals/HPA dysregulation has a lot to do with that. Low cortisol makes everything worse and seem completely overwhelming. Will your doctor order it for you? Can you order it yourself now through Canary Club/ZRT?

Low dose Cortef may have actually made you feel worse if your adrenals are sputtering. It could have suppressed more that it replaced at 10 mg and left you with even less cortisol than your flagging adrenals produced without it. Same with Isocort. If your results are very low, you may need anywhere from 20-40 mg of cortisol. This is a really common problem people face with HC and are often written off as intolerant when it was simply the dosage and form that are the problem.

Those with infections like EBV or Lyme often need to be at the higher end and may even need a longer acting steroid like Medrol or Dex mixed in with HC to keep a steadier level especially at first. RichvanK just posted a great explanation of how low glutathione may play into the process in a thread started by Vitamin K that you may wish to review. I would also reiterate my suggestions to her to you as far as testing...it sounds like we are all in the same boat!

 

[Misfit Toy]

I see. That's really rough to be that sensitive, I can definitely relate.

If you've gone to Clymer I assume they've done an ASI, then. Can you post the results, along with any other relevant labs you might have?

I had it done in 2009, so I have to have a new one. I will get one and post it. I see him on the 30th. He is really hard to get into.

 

[Misfit Toy]

I am sorry that you are struggling right now. I recognize so much truth in some of the things that you write. I will hope for this bad patch to pass quickly and for you to find some peace of mind and rest.

Ten years ago, I lived in a major US city with an amazing job and a great partner. I would never have predicted where I am now then. But the same goes for ten years from now in the future...it's not easy to see things getting better sometimes, but the truth is that we NEVER know how things will actually work out. You can't predict better or worse with any degree of certainty. You could spend your whole life with someone great and they could still die before you. Ultimately there are no guarantees about these things. I may or may not be able to accept the things that happen to me but I will try my darn-dest to be resilient and roll with the (seemingly never-ending) punches.

I've heard good things about Clymer but I'm wondering if maybe a switch is in order? Sometimes when I start to feel like I've burned out a doctor with all my "difficult" symptoms, it helps to find someone else who can carry the baton of hope for a little while. It's important to have a doctor that is still hopeful for you, I think, because sometimes it is so hard to carry on with hope ourselves.

I agree with Jeffrez above about the saliva cortisol test. I would get one done, like, yesterday. It's clear that you are at the end of your rope and cortisol/adrenals/HPA dysregulation has a lot to do with that. Low cortisol makes everything worse and seem completely overwhelming. Will your doctor order it for you? Can you order it yourself now through Canary Club/ZRT?

Low dose Cortef may have actually made you feel worse if your adrenals are sputtering. It could have suppressed more that it replaced at 10 mg and left you with even less cortisol than your flagging adrenals produced without it. Same with Isocort. If your results are very low, you may need anywhere from 20-40 mg of cortisol. This is a really common problem people face with HC and are often written off as intolerant when it was simply the dosage and form that are the problem.

Those with infections like EBV or Lyme often need to be at the higher end and may even need a longer acting steroid like Medrol or Dex mixed in with HC to keep a steadier level especially at first. RichvanK just posted a great explanation of how low glutathione may play into the process in a thread started by Vitamin K that you may wish to review. I would also reiterate my suggestions to her to you as far as testing...it sounds like we are all in the same boat!

First of all, if your partner died, I am so sorry. That's awful. I don't even know what to say.

Medrol is a drug that makes me full on psycho. I can't sleep a wink on it and i walk around talking to myself 24 hours a day.

If I have another ASI test, my question is...what will this show, other than what we already know? I know my adrenals are tanked. So, what is the point of the test?

Honestly, after my experience with cortef and the 10 mg dose, I wouldn't take it again even at 20 mg. I was so sick. After all of the crap that i was on, I was on a hormonal soup of adrenal crap, it took me an entire year to get better from the stuff they put me on. Rhodiola helped to some extent. I was on so much. Pregnenelone, progesterone, DHEA, Estriol, another form or estrogen, ACE and I was on isocort and cortef before that. I couldn't even get out of bed. I couldn't leave my apartment, I was so sick. I came out of it by isolating and not being around people and sleeping. I could actually sleep then.

 

[jeffrez]

I forget, why did Clymer people not put you on their licorice extract? Do you not tolerate that?

 

[heapsreal]

And how do you do that? I am on klonopin, restoril, ativan and I quit 2 of them because they weren't working. Sleep comes from a deeper place than just treating sleep. If you have chemical imbalances, adrenal disorders, pain; treating sleep is not as easy as taking a pill. You have to treat the whole problem . The hormones, the adrenals, the pain. So...sleep treatment is not cut and dry.

How do i do that, sleep?? I dont really know but putting it out there hopefully someone has a magic wand. I think if there was a way for us to improve sleep then the rest would improve. Its dam sleep that would help us recover. I think you did the right thing by stopping those sleep meds that werent helping. Maybe a long break from them and then trying them again later they will help u too sleep, tolerance to sleep meds is one of our biggest problems to using sleep meds, the only way i know to reduce the tolerance is to take breaks from the meds and alternate them with other meds,,non benzo meds. If sleep is really hard for you to get can i suggest to look into seroquel, it can be something to alternate with your other meds. its used for many hard core insomniacs.

 

[heapsreal]

dr lams web site on adrenal fatigue mentions those that are very low in hormones over respond to normal doses of adrenal hormones and adaptogen herbs etc, he recommends using very low doses and slowly increasing them. He is also big into vit b5 for adrenal fatigue.
http://www.drlam.com/index.asp i dont know if u have read his stuff but theres a link, hopefully it can help u some.

cheers!!

 

[Ema]

First of all, if your partner died, I am so sorry. That's awful. I don't even know what to say.

I'm so sorry if I gave that impression! No, we just couldn't make it work. Though I may have wished for his early demise a time or two...

I was actually thinking of my grandparents who spent almost 60 years together before my grandfather's death. And now my grandmother is dying in a nursing home all by herself for the most part. She had a great marriage and still gets to face the end alone (she is far away from us so visits are not as frequent). It's so cliche but true that we all ultimately face the end alone.

Medrol is a drug that makes me full on psycho. I can't sleep a wink on it and i walk around talking to myself 24 hours a day.

Medrol makes me want to stick my head in an oven as well - even on a low dose - and I bet you weren't on a low dose. But I know plenty of people that do just fine on it. I felt the same way on Prednisone too except the suicidal depression started with the very first dose. You can imagine my desire to try a third steroid was pretty low but to my surprise, I trialed a low dose of dexamethasone and it changed my life for the better. If I had to pick one med, it would be a hard choice between dex and Florinef.

If I have another ASI test, my question is...what will this show, other than what we already know? I know my adrenals are tanked. So, what is the point of the test?

But do you know for sure they are tanked all day/night long? Your trouble sleeping would suggest otherwise. The ASI shows the rhythm and total production of cortisol. You could be very low in the morning and noon and high at night (which is a very common pattern). This would be treated differently than someone who is flatlined low all day long. The total production of cortisol is also informative as it gives another indication of the state of your adrenals. I think it's really hard to know what the adrenals are doing since so many of the symptoms overlap.

Ultimately, it's your choice. If you've ruled out trying to treat the adrenals because of your bad past experiences with hormones, then I might not bother with it.

Honestly, after my experience with cortef and the 10 mg dose, I wouldn't take it again even at 20 mg. I was so sick. After all of the crap that i was on, I was on a hormonal soup of adrenal crap, it took me an entire year to get better from the stuff they put me on.

I wish you hadn't had that experience but you are far from the only one. Doctors are so uninformed and afraid of HC that they commonly prescribe it this way and people get worse and their steroid fears only intensify. Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy! HC can really make you MUCH worse if the dose is too low and the up and downs of cortisol and adrenaline are horrifyingly uncomfortable. I wish your doctor had recognized that your dose was too low and had shown you how to safely raise it to a full replacement dose where you were comfortable rather than let you suffer. It's an unfortunately common story.

 

[Misfit Toy]

I forget, why did Clymer people not put you on their licorice extract? Do you not tolerate that?

I can't remember if I tolerate it. I don't think I am too bad on it. I have DGL plus. Is that what I need?

 

[Ema]

I can't remember if I tolerate it. I don't think I am too bad on it. I have DGL plus. Is that what I need?

No, that is deglycyrrhized licorice which has had the active ingredient removed. It won't help to potentiate cortisol for you at all.

 

[Misfit Toy]

As said by Ema...

"I was actually thinking of my grandparents who spent almost 60 years together before my grandfather's death. And now my grandmother is dying in a nursing home all by herself for the most part. She had a great marriage and still gets to face the end alone (she is far away from us so visits are not as frequent). It's so cliche but true that we all ultimately face the end alone.



Medrol makes me want to stick my head in an oven as well - even on a low dose - and I bet you weren't on a low dose. But I know plenty of people that do just fine on it. I felt the same way on Prednisone too except the suicidal depression started with the very first dose. You can imagine my desire to try a third steroid was pretty low but to my surprise, I trialed a low dose of dexamethasone and it changed my life for the better. If I had to pick one med, it would be a hard choice between dex and Florinef.



But do you know for sure they are tanked all day/night long? Your trouble sleeping would suggest otherwise. The ASI shows the rhythm and total production of cortisol. You could be very low in the morning and noon and high at night (which is a very common pattern). This would be treated differently than someone who is flatlined low all day long. The total production of cortisol is also informative as it gives another indication of the state of your adrenals. I think it's really hard to know what the adrenals are doing since so many of the symptoms overlap."

---------------------------------------------------
EMA...sorry for the caps.

No, I don't know what my adrenals are up to. I know that I sleep better in the day. It's 8:44 pm here and I just took a nap...that's right, at this weird hour. I go into a complete slump around 6 pm. They seem to be higher at night because I am more awake later on at night.

I am not saying I don't want to treat the adrenals, I just don't know what to do. I had more hope years ago. I could tolerate more. It's harder now. Clearly, I have to do something. It's always a very slippery slope with the adrenals though. As far as going to another practitioner, I would agree if it wasn't for the $$$. Most docs do not take medicare-the holistic ones. And to be honest, they usually try the same stuff mine has tried. I don't have prescription coverage and the supposed good holistic docs are over $100. I called Dr. Lam by the way. Last year. His thoughts were the same as most. He really doesn't have a rabbit up his sleeve either.

As far as dying alone, I guess I really didn't mean that I don't want to die alone. I miss being able to have the choice to date. I can't date anymore and it bums me out. I am too tired to date. I am tired of being alone and wish I had someone who could rub my feet or have my back.

 

[Misfit Toy]

No, that is deglycyrrhized licorice which has had the active ingredient removed. It won't help to potentiate cortisol for you at all.

Ok. I just responded to your other post...I somehow removed the quotes. I am too brain dead to figure this crap out.

 

[jeffrez]

Ok. I just responded to your other post...I somehow removed the quotes. I am too brain dead to figure this crap out.

If you tolerate it, this is the stuff you perhaps need (depending ASI test, what your doc says, etc.):

http://www.guidance.org/store/product32.html

 

[Misfit Toy]

Thanks, Jeff. I will talk to my doctor about it. I know he uses it.

 

[Ema]

No, I don't know what my adrenals are up to. I know that I sleep better in the day. It's 8:44 pm here and I just took a nap...that's right, at this weird hour. I go into a complete slump around 6 pm. They seem to be higher at night because I am more awake later on at night.

I am not saying I don't want to treat the adrenals, I just don't know what to do. I had more hope years ago. I could tolerate more. It's harder now. Clearly, I have to do something. It's always a very slippery slope with the adrenals though. As far as going to another practitioner, I would agree if it wasn't for the $$$. Most docs do not take medicare-the holistic ones. And to be honest, they usually try the same stuff mine has tried. I don't have prescription coverage and the supposed good holistic docs are over $100. I called Dr. Lam by the way. Last year. His thoughts were the same as most. He really doesn't have a rabbit up his sleeve either.

As far as dying alone, I guess I really didn't mean that I don't want to die alone. I miss being able to have the choice to date. I can't date anymore and it bums me out. I am too tired to date. I am tired of being alone and wish I had someone who could rub my feet or have my back.

I completely understand. And it is also hard to make decisions when you feel this way too. I hope that this rough patch smooths out soon.

I get tired of being alone too. But it comes and goes as I remember how hard relationships can be too. The type of person I would be attracted to now is totally different than the type of person I am attracted to when functioning at 90-100%. And let's face it - the men who were attracted to the old me wouldn't even look twice at me now. Maybe that's no great loss though! LOL.

But I hope that you find someone to rub your feet. A good foot rub is worth its weight in gold sometimes.

I'm not sure how far this doctor is from you...and I don't think he takes Medicare. But his website has lots of useful info on hormone replacement.

http://www.hormonerestoration.com/index.html

 

[Misfit Toy]

I completely understand. And it is also hard to make decisions when you feel this way too. I hope that this rough patch smooths out soon.

I get tired of being alone too. But it comes and goes as I remember how hard relationships can be too. The type of person I would be attracted to now is totally different than the type of person I am attracted to when functioning at 90-100%. And let's face it - the men who were attracted to the old me wouldn't even look twice at me now. Maybe that's no great loss though! LOL.

But I hope that you find someone to rub your feet. A good foot rub is worth its weight in gold sometimes.

I'm not sure how far this doctor is from you...and I don't think he takes Medicare. But his website has lots of useful info on hormone replacement.

http://www.hormonerestoration.com/index.html

Thanks Ema...that's about 3 hours away from me. Yes, relationships are hard. And I agree, the type I went for years ago is not the same. I miss that type. More alive.

I need to find a doc closer if I am even going to look for another one. Not sure if it's the depression, the adrenals or what, but I am too tired and mostly, I don't want to be let down anymore by docs. I am sick of it. I have done BHRT enough. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it works any better. As I have been sick for 23 years, my body is less and less able to handle things. Hormones have always been a major issue from day 1. I need to do things slowly.

We shall see.

 

[jeffrez]

I probably wouldn't advocate as a first course, but have you tried any conventional anti-depressants, SSRIs, etc? Those can sometimes help to normalize or improve HPAA functioning, too. Might provide some relief in the short or medium term, and then when you were more stable medically you could wean off them.

 

[Misfit Toy]

I feel like I am being a pain in the a$$, but....I can't take SSRI's. They make me sicker than a dog. I can't tolerate them, I have GERD and they make me throw up. The last time I was on them I had to take Prilosec and it didn't work. It was awful. I have been to 2 different psychiatrists and they said, SSRI's are not for you and they upset many peoples stomachs. SSRI's work on Serotonin in the gut, hence my problem with them. I wish I could take an antidepressant. I would love to, but even when I was more tolerant of tricyclics, I still never felt less depressed on them. They just dulled my sadness and made me numb. I was on Remeron, which put 23 pounds on me and really did nothing for my mental state. I still have not taken the weight from the med completely off. All tricyclics don't work either. They drop my blood pressure to being too too low. I was on Elavil which made me manic. In the beginning it was fun, then I couldn't sleep at all.

 

[jeffrez]

I feel like I am being a pain in the a$$, but....I can't take SSRI's. They make me sicker than a dog. I can't tolerate them, I have GERD and they make me throw up. The last time I was on them I had to take Prilosec and it didn't work. It was awful. I have been to 2 different psychiatrists and they said, SSRI's are not for you and they upset many peoples stomachs. SSRI's work on Serotonin in the gut, hence my problem with them. I wish I could take an antidepressant. I would love to, but even when I was more tolerant of tricyclics, I still never felt less depressed on them. They just dulled my sadness and made me numb. I was on Remeron, which put 23 pounds on me and really did nothing for my mental state. I still have not taken the weight from the med completely off. All tricyclics don't work either. They drop my blood pressure to being too too low. I was on Elavil which made me manic. In the beginning it was fun, then I couldn't sleep at all.

That is really too bad, Spitfire, very sorry to hear it. You're not being a PITA (pain the a$$ ;-)) at all - we're all familiar with having weird sensitivities and reactions to things. I can relate perfectly b/c whenever I took SSRIs I got horribly depressed. Exactly the opposite of the intended reaction. When I finally found one I could at least tolerate, it wiped out my vit D and calcium levels somehow. And even on the one I could tolerate, I felt the same way as you described - just numbed basically, not "anti-depressed." I thought it might be worth a suggestion, though.

I really hope you can find something soon to feel better - sometimes just time can help, especially when dealing with adrenal issues. They need time, rest, and soothing activity to heal. Have you tried any basic meditation practices, progressive relaxation, etc.? Those can sometimes be more of a help than it would seem. Anything that shifts you out of sympathetic dominance and lets you relax would seem to be a good thing. Again, hope you pull out of this soon - and I think with time you will. Just hang in there.

 

[Misfit Toy]

That is really too bad, Spitfire, very sorry to hear it. You're not being a PITA (pain the a$$ ;-)) at all - we're all familiar with having weird sensitivities and reactions to things. I can relate perfectly b/c whenever I took SSRIs I got horribly depressed. Exactly the opposite of the intended reaction. When I finally found one I could at least tolerate, it wiped out my vit D and calcium levels somehow. And even on the one I could tolerate, I felt the same way as you described - just numbed basically, not "anti-depressed." I thought it might be worth a suggestion, though.

I really hope you can find something soon to feel better - sometimes just time can help, especially when dealing with adrenal issues. They need time, rest, and soothing activity to heal. Have you tried any basic meditation practices, progressive relaxation, etc.? Those can sometimes be more of a help than it would seem. Anything that shifts you out of sympathetic dominance and lets you relax would seem to be a good thing. Again, hope you pull out of this soon - and I think with time you will. Just hang in there.

Hey Jeff, I just got home from Restorative yoga. I am just taking it easy. I started seeing a new therapist who said something to me today that was actually awesome..."After all you have been through, do you honestly think you would feel any differently. You need to give your self some time, some much needed time to rest and take care of yourself. Even if that means you need to be alone for some time." WOW.....really?

So, yes, I am trying the whole relaxation route and just trying to go with it, be with it, etc. Thank you for all of your suggestions. I appreciate people on here listening. It makes me feel not so alone.