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depressed about LDN

littlebird6180

Senior Member
Messages
119
MAJOR UPDATE: see last post

I've been on LDN since July. And am currently up to 5ml. I can't say I've noticed any effect whatsoever. My CFS/ME doc is convinced it's because my immune function is so poor and until I get my immune function improved through K-PAX and a variety of other supplements, it may not work for me. She also wants me to continue to increase the dose because they've had many patients respond at higher doses than the usual 4.5.

I'm trying not to but I keep reading so many amazing stories on here of how LDN changed people's lives and it's hard to not feel discouraged and upset that it doesn't seem to be working for me. Dr Klimas seems to think it's going to end up being the standard treatment for CFS/ME too so what do I do if it doesn't work for me?
 
Last edited:

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,321
Location
Southern California
@littlebird6180 - ldn didn't work for me. I've tried it twice, the last time a couple of weeks ago. I responded horribly to it, even in very small doses. I started at 1.5 mg., and kept decreasing it because it made me very tired and achy, and then spacey and depressed. Finally had to stop it after 9 days as I couldn't function.

So it's not for everyone, unfortunately! My sister who has rheumatoid arthritis tried it (I forget how long), she was taking 4.5 mg. and noticed nothing, good or bad, sounded sort of like you, so she eventually stopped it.

I don't know if your doctor's theory is right, that poor immune function is interfering with the efficacy of ldn. I think the whole point of ldn is to improve immune function.

Two years ago my HHV6 number was quite high (in the 600's), but my GP who did the test did nothing and I didn't know enough to do anything about it. I recently was re-tested by Dr. Kaufman at OMI and my number had come down quite a bit to the 100's - this without an antiviral. Dr. Kaufman said that if he had been treating me 2 years ago he would have put me on an antiviral but that I don't need it now. So - somehow my immune system improved over the last 2 years and the only things I can figure that may have contributed to this are Inosine and glutamine. I started inosine I think a little over a year ago, and the glutamine last November. There's lots of info available about glutamine and the immune system: https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/glutamine

I tried K-PAX several years ago and it didn't do much for me, but I think I was already on a good basic nutritional regimen.

I would ask others here what they have done to improve their immune systems. Good luck!
 

littlebird6180

Senior Member
Messages
119
@littlebird6180 - ldn didn't work for me. I've tried it twice, the last time a couple of weeks ago. I responded horribly to it, even in very small doses. I started at 1.5 mg., and kept decreasing it because it made me very tired and achy, and then spacey and depressed. Finally had to stop it after 9 days as I couldn't function.

So it's not for everyone, unfortunately! My sister who has rheumatoid arthritis tried it (I forget how long), she was taking 4.5 mg. and noticed nothing, good or bad, sounded sort of like you, so she eventually stopped it.

I don't know if your doctor's theory is right, that poor immune function is interfering with the efficacy of ldn. I think the whole point of ldn is to improve immune function.

Two years ago my HHV6 number was quite high (in the 600's), but my GP who did the test did nothing and I didn't know enough to do anything about it. I recently was re-tested by Dr. Kaufman at OMI and my number had come down quite a bit to the 100's - this without an antiviral. Dr. Kaufman said that if he had been treating me 2 years ago he would have put me on an antiviral but that I don't need it now. So - somehow my immune system improved over the last 2 years and the only things I can figure that may have contributed to this are Inosine and glutamine. I started inosine I think a little over a year ago, and the glutamine last November. There's lots of info available about glutamine and the immune system: https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/glutamine

I tried K-PAX several years ago and it didn't do much for me, but I think I was already on a good basic nutritional regimen.

I would ask others here what they have done to improve their immune systems. Good luck!

Thank you! The LDN made me really tired at first too. I had a hard time and felt like a total robot. But that effect suddenly stopped and now I just can't seem to feel anything.

I may have misinterpreted my doctor. She works with Dr Klimas at Nova so I'm going to assume I got this wrong (so much information comes at me in a single appointment that I am bringing my husband next time just to help me remember and translate). Maybe what she meant is my immune function was so poor that it would take longer for it to work?

I feel a bit better with K-PAX but it's doing a number on my stomach.

I believe that glutamine is on my lengthy list to bring to my doctor but if not, I will add it! Every time I feel like I understand a part of this, a whole other layer is revealed and I feel as clueless as I did the first day.
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
My doctor, wellknown, experienced and knowledgable, wanted me to try LDN but told that all people with ME don´t benefit from it of genetic reasons. He also told that there is no reason to go higher than 4.5 mg daily. For what it´s worth.
 

Vojta

Senior Member
Messages
167
Location
Czech Republic
Ldn didn't work for me too. It makes me very irritated, depressed and causes anhedonia. I tried twice but I had to stop always after few days. My doctor also told me there are people who don't respond because of their genes. It could be true because other opiod analogs (tramadol) makes me sick too. It very unfortunate it doesnt work for us. My LLMD says it helped many of his patients.
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,321
Location
Southern California
Thank you! The LDN made me really tired at first too. I had a hard time and felt like a total robot. But that effect suddenly stopped and now I just can't seem to feel anything.

This makes me wonder if it's right for you - what is it doing to your endorphins such that you can't feel anything - I don't think that's a good thing. We don't have the research showing that ldn is right for everyone.

K-Pax is just a high dose vitamin/mineral supplement with a few other things thrown in, maybe you would tolerate another supplement better. e.g., this one looks good, has almost everything K-Pax does except N-acetyl-cysteine, acetyl-l-carnitine and l-glutamic acid (and l-glutamic acid is not for everyone).
http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Two-Per-Day-Capsules-120-Capsules/62210

The Life Extension product also has a low dose of Niagen, which may be beneficial for energy.

I'm not telling you to switch, but just that there are alternatives to K-Pax if it screws up your stomach.

I totally get it about feeling clueless. This illness is complex. Just when I feel like I'm getting a handle on things, I learn something totally new - it can be overwhelming! :confused:
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
This makes me wonder if it's right for you - what is it doing to your endorphins such that you can't feel anything - I don't think that's a good thing. We don't have the research showing that ldn is right for everyone.
That's a very good point. I've been very fortunate to have had LDN make a difference, at 4 mg.

There's been an ongoing conversation on one of the yahoo LDN forums re dosage. Some comments. The quotes come from very knowledgable people, at times reflect differing opinions re dosage. Some of it concerns cancer, I thought it was pretty interesting.

Our goal by taking LDN is to get to the point where LDN has reset our immune system so that it will start functioning normally. LDNs ability to restore your immune system back to ‘health’ ie start producing endorphins/enkephalins and the all too important receptors for the endorphins and enkephalins to latch onto and interact as it did before you got sick, is very interesting.

When this happens you no longer need to take LDN as often. Remember, it’s the cell interaction of the endorphins/enkephalins and receptors after the LDN clears your receptors that is beneficial to our health. When starting out on LDN we most likely need daily administration to get our endorphins/enkephalins and receptors ‘up’ to a level where they function efficiently. This amount of time it takes to achieve this varies with each individual.

According to Dr Zagon this effect to reduce your dose can happen anywhere between 1 and 5 years and usually the signs are feeling worse, disease progressing etc. So if you have been taking LDN for some time and feel you are no longer getting the benefits, or perhaps are getting worse, this might be why – for you, taking LDN on a daily basis may be too often so you may not need to take LDN as often - (which is a great thing)!

Remember the benefits happen during the rebound effect (when LDN is no longer in your system) and if the dose of LDN being used is too high or too often – this would make it naltrexone treatment (longer blockade time and too frequently for your body/disease). If this is the case, it could definitely exacerbate the symptoms of your disease. This is because the more frequent dosing of naltrexone will block production of OGF (net enkephalin) on a continuous basis. OGF is needed to keep the immune system in order, not LDN. LDN is just a decoy to get the ‘OGF effect’.

It might be worth trying LDN every other day so you do capitalise on the OGF effect which inhibits inflammation along with cell proliferation.

LDN upregulates the body’s endorphins and met-enkephalins (met enkephalin known as OGF - Opioid Growth Factor), as well as the receptors for the endorphins and OGF to attach onto. The goal is to have LDN antagonising the receptors for around 4 hours.

This then allows for the remaining 20 hours of the day for the upregulated levels of endorphins and OGF to interact with the upregulated receptors. It is this cell interaction that inhibits inflammation, pain and cell proliferation.

With cancer the science has proven it’s the upregulated levels of the body’s OGF that slow down the proliferation of cancer cells. That’s why Dr Zagon refers to met enkephalin as the Opioid Growth Factor (OGF) - stops the growth of cells (in this case cancerous cells).

Some cancers are low in receptors, others with OGF so taking LDN upregulates both. So you want to maximise on the amount of time for OGF to interact with its receptor to stop the cancer cells from multiplying/proliferating.

Remember the higher the dose the longer the blockade and less time for the OGF and OGF receptors to do their job. According to Dr Zagon who researches LDN and has been for over 30 years, it is imperative we understand this when using LDN for cancer.

Therefore Dr Zagon recommends a dose of 3mg to ensure you have at least 20 hours for the OGF to stop the cancer cells from growing.



Response, dudley: Dr. Bihari in his medical practice proved that 4.5 mg is necessary for some people to get the full benefit of LDN. Most of the LDN studies involving humans used 4.5 mg. If a person with cancer needs a dose of 4.5 to get the full benefit of LDN, reducing the dose to 3 mg would be counterproductive.



Doctors who prescribe no more than 3 mg of LDN for their patients are making a BIG mistake. It’s the same mistake that Dr. Bihari made when first using LDN to treat various conditions in his medical practice. Eventually, a patient inadvertently took 4.5 mg one night, and the next day had a dramatic improvement in her condition. By the time this video interview was made, most of Dr. Bihari’s patients were on either 3 or 4.5 mg: http://tinyurl.com/bihari-interview-2003

When it comes to LDN, due to individual differences, one size definitely does NOT fit all. We each have go find the dose that works best for us and then stick to it religiously.

Francie : If both 3 and 4.5 give the same results, then the lesser amount is the best choice. For those with cancer, especially, the most important point is to stop cell proliferation, so using the least possible, is by far the best answer. While the LDN is in the receptor sites, it is encouraging cell proliferation. While the LDN is NOT in the receptor sites, it is inhibiting the cell proliferation. There is a lot more to it, but this should be enough to tell people that 4.5 is not necessarily the answer in the case of cancer.

Since the “benefits”; of LDN, when used for cancer, is to have the cancer stop growing, the less you take, the better.

The 4.5 mg was for a few people with Multiple Sclerosis. While I was recovering from MS, I took 4.5 mg. When I was diagnosed with cancer, I dropped it to 3 mg, as recommended by those who have studied this. The “full benefit” comes from taking as little as one can possibly take, and still cover the receptors for approximately 4 hours.

Dudley: Again, if a person with cancer needs a dose of 4.5 mg to get the full benefit of LDN, reducing the dose to 3 would be counterproductive. Also there were more than “a few” people with MS and other conditions who needed at least 4.5 mg. Dr. Bihari said that most of his patients were on either 3 or 4.5, not most of his patients were on 3 with “a few” on 4.5

Initially every patient was on 3, but it became clear that 4.5 worked better for some, regardless of whether they had MS or not.
The reason why it was originally thought and hypothesized that LDN should be taken between 9pm-3am was because somebody thought we had the biggest endorphin boost between 2am-4am and that this gave us our biggest bang for our buck.

The truth is, a study done on humans shows that endorphins peak at 8.25am and OGF (met enkephalin) peaks at 5pm. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/019205619190113L



The researchers who have been studying LDN for 30+ years including those who have conducted clinical (human) trials (Dr Jarred Younger and Dr Jill Smith) have all said it makes no difference as to what time of day you take LDN.

It’s pretty much a supply and demand method. You take LDN, it blocks the receptors for 4 hours tricking your body into thinking it is not producing any endorphins (but it is), therefore your body compensates for this belief by producing more endorphins and once the blockade time of 4 hours is over, all the good things happen with healing and slowing down disease progression.

This mechanism works just the same regardless of the time of day you take LDN. And let’s not forget, it’s not just about ‘boosting endorphins’, but more importantly the receptors too to provide us with the much needed cell interaction which helps immune function. Having a boatload of endorphins floating around without a sufficient amount of receptors for them to attach onto, is like having a load of keys without locks.

In fact when you attach an endorphin to a receptor, this stimulates the biochemistry in the cell appropriate to that event. With endorphins this is generally controlling neural signals in nerves to control pain. When you attach NTX it is an active antagonist, not a passive one, so it doesn’t ‘just’ block the receptor. When a sufficient number of receptors are blocked on a sufficient number of cells, it causes a rebound effect which stimulates the production of both endorphin receptors and endorphins to try and compensate for the lack of effect for receptors being occupied and not activated.



Some of us are deficient in endorphins and enkephalins, others are deficient in receptors. Too much of one and not enough of the other causes an imbalance which needs correcting.

Taking LDN helps balance this out – that’s the beauty behind LDN is that it also works to build up receptors.

Speaking of receptors, the important thing to understand is that LDN works through the OGF receptor. OGF stands for Opioid Growth Factor which is an opioid peptide (a molecule that is manufactured in the body). Taking LDN helps elevate both levels of OGF and the number of OGF receptors. It is this upregulation which balances our immune systems, slows down disease progression, control inflammation and promotes homeostasis.

So if looking to capitalize on the above, we need to maximise the amount of time we allow the upregulation of OGF to interact with it’s receptor (OGFr).

The researchers at Penn State are trying to further identify which diseases has more of one and not enough of the other. Jayne
Rebel here.....I'm a new poster to the group, tho I have been reading along for a while, and wanted to share my experience bc it is a little different.... I have been on LDN for 2 years. I now take LDN 8mg twice a day. I started off on 4 mg at night, and quickly realized that it helped my debilitating lower back pain. I also took Effexor and Norco for neuropathic pain and prednisone 40mg for autoimmune inflammation. I take the Norco apart from the LDN, but have never felt that one influenced the other enough for me to notice a lack of effect of either. In fact, I felt less pain and didn't have to stay in bed as much. Unfortunately, I gained 40 pounds with the prednisone and Effexor (both cause weight gain). I read about Contrave, a weight loss drug that is a combination of Wellbutrin 90mg and Naltrexone 8mg per tablet. The dosage is 1-2 tablets twice a day. Wellbutrin is also used for neuropathic pain, so, with my rheumatologist's blessing, I tapered off the Effexor (and prednisone) and started Wellbutrin. I'm on other immunosuppresants as well. Wellbutrin helped my back pain. Then, to see what would happen, I increased the LDN to 4mg twice a day, and then ultimately to 8mg twice a day, to duplicate the dosage of Naltrexone in Contrave (hoping to lose some weight). To my surprise, my back pain is even less on this higher dose! Not only that, the weight melted off without my changing much else....I ate less only because I didn't feel as hungry, and my metabolism definitely increased (as it's reported to). I have noticed other positive effects: my autoantibody levels have all decreased! I don't know if this is due to the Naltrexone, but I have been on the same immunosuppressants for a year and my antibodies didn't budge. All of a sudden I increase the Naltrexone and my autoantibodies are not measurable, and my Vitamin D levels, which have been at 30, jumped up to 50 without changing the daily dose. I think my GI system is absorbing things better, so maybe it's the immunosuppressants working better...it's hard to know what is better, but the Naltrexone (and Wellbutrin) is the only thing that changed. My main point is that it would seem that the optimal dosage of LDN must vary between individuals, with body weight being a major variable. GI absorption, and liver function may also playing a smaller role. For example, in children, we dose medications by weight, yet for adults, there seems to be a standard dosage (a convenience?). But surely a 95 pound woman might need a different dosage than a 220 pound man. Yet it doesn't seem weight is a consideration in our discussions, when people are asking for advice on whether to take 3mg vs. 4.5 mg for a certain condition. I know 8 mg twice a day is so much more than is recommended in this group, but, it really is working for me. BTW, I weigh 130 pounds.

Response: It is generally a good idea not to take immunosuppressants concurrently with LDN because they tend to work against each other (like "riding a bicycle with the brakes on," to quote pharmacist Dr. Skip Lenz). However, it would appear from your experience that if the dose of Naltrexone is high enough to counteract the immunosuppressants, good things can still happen. Dr. Tom Gilhooly of Scotland has gotten good results with split (morning and evening) dosing with daily totals up to 25 mg. As you point out, it is also a good idea to factor in a person's weight, age, liver status, etc., when computing one's optimal dose, as this site tries to emphasize: http://tinyurl.com/ldn-side-effects-and-dosing
 

littlebird6180

Senior Member
Messages
119
That's a very good point. I've been very fortunate to have had LDN make a difference, at 4 mg.

There's been an ongoing conversation on one of the yahoo LDN forums re dosage. Some comments. The quotes come from very knowledgable people, at times reflect differing opinions re dosage. Some of it concerns cancer, I thought it was pretty interesting.

I don't even know where to begin in my response. There is so much incredible information in this post. Thank you so much for taking the time to post this.
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,321
Location
Southern California
After I stopped ldn, it took close to a week to get my energy back. The ldn appeared to deplete my adrenals somehow, which I think was the cause of the severe fatigue I had while on it - muscle testing indicated that my adrenals were weak after I stopped, and after several days of taking Drenamin (adrenal glandular) my energy started to return. I don't know how ldn would affect the adrenals, but it appeared to do so in my case.
 

littlebird6180

Senior Member
Messages
119
MAJOR UPDATE:
I just spoke to Skip's pharmacist and he pointed out that my liquid naltrexone is only 0.1mg/ML which means I'm only taking half a MG. he said do NOT give up, that I need to get a prescription that is 10 times the strength. He gave me so much hope and was so informative. So I just wanted to share that!
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@littlebird6180 I switched from compounded LDN to purchasing 50mg Naltrexone. Far cheaper. Excellent quality, Indian pharmacy, super quick delivery. There's a space in the online form to add rx details, but it can be left blank.

Dilute 50mg tab w/ 50ml distilled water. This gives you 1mg:1ml, very easy to work with. alldaychemist.com
 

panckage

Senior Member
Messages
777
Location
Vancouver, BC
It seems like the majority of the posts about ldn are negative here. I just want to say although I've only been on it for a couple weeks and still titrating up my dosage, the results have been very positive.

I have my emotions back. My OI seems to be largely gone. I have gone from doing the minimum to survive until the next day to not having enough in a day to do everything I want to do. It's been a life changer for me

Again though I've only been on it a couple weeks and meds have a habit of losing their effects within a couple months on me but fingers crossed!

A nice side effect is that opiods seem to work much better now that I'm on LDN
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
Here's another interchange re dosing schedules:
Going by what is prescribed on the bottle is not a good way to determine how much people actually take.

Many people get a script for a higher than used dosage. For example, Joe’s script which is written by a Dr states:

“4.5mg to be taken at night.”

Reality is:-

Joe takes 2mg in the morning three times a week.

Gives his wife 1.5mg five times a week taken in the morning.

Gives his teenage son 1mg twice a week taken in the morning.

Gives Rover the dog 2mg three times a week.

Seriously not a good way to determine dosing.



Jayne, I know you were just creating an example. Do you think there are many people who are dosing at the intervals you suggest? Rather than daily? In what circumstances? thanks.



Yes there are many people I am aware of who follow this protocol with great success.

Bear in mind that the positives ie controlling cell proliferation (T, B cells, astrocytes, microglia or cancer), and to inhibit inflammation, promote homeostasis etc., all happen during the ‘rebound effect’ (after the 4-6 hour blockade by LDN). It’s the remaining 18-20 hours of the day when the upregulated levels of the body’s OGF and/or OGF receptors interact that works to improve immune function.

What’s interesting to note is that some people who have been on LDN daily for several years start to think that LDN no longer works for them – increased pain, more fatigue, disease progressing etc., when in fact, it’s quite the opposite. LDN has done a great job with resetting their immune systems to start functioning efficiently again that by taking LDN on a daily basis they are cutting short the ‘rebound effect’ time. The key is to allow ample time for the OGF to interact with its receptor to promote healing and slow down disease progression.

What we are also finding is some people fair better on every other day dosing from the start. This could mean that for them, the ‘rebound effect’ lasts longer than the once thought 18-24 hours ie 48 or 72 hours.

I do believe that the less you can take of any med and get the desired result is best, and LDN is no exception. Each of us are so individual that unfortunately we can only determine this through trial and error (for now).
 

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
What’s interesting to note is that some people who have been on LDN daily for several years start to think that LDN no longer works for them – increased pain, more fatigue, disease progressing etc., when in fact, it’s quite the opposite. LDN has done a great job with resetting their immune systems to start functioning efficiently again that by taking LDN on a daily basis they are cutting short the ‘rebound effect’ time. The key is to allow ample time for the OGF to interact with its receptor to promote healing and slow down disease progression.

Very interesting information, @ahmo, thanks for posting all that. My experience mirrored the person quoted above. Initially I took LDN daily, starting with 0.5 mg and gradually building up to 1 and eventually 2 mg. I had good results from it for several weeks. The only side effect was insomnia but it was manageable if LDN was taken in the morning. After a couple of months, though, LDN started making me sick and at first I was able to get around that by pulsing it - one dose every second or third day - but eventually even that became too much and now every time I take it, even a really small dose like opening a 1 mg capsule and taking just a few grains from it, I feel very subpar and derive no benefit from it whatsoever.

I am not sure why an ME/CFS doctor would say that this is going to become the standard treatment for this disease. ME is not MS where some people get truly astounding results from LDN. This treatment has marginal efficacy at best for ME and FM. Dr Younger's published trial data in FM is incredibly unimpressive. Thousands of people have been trying this over the years and for most who benefit the improvements seem quite modest in the sense that they tend to still be disabled while feeling a bit better. Some get no results from it. Some feel worse on it. This is just going by anecdotal evidence online.
 

littlebird6180

Senior Member
Messages
119
It seems like the majority of the posts about ldn are negative here. I just want to say although I've only been on it for a couple weeks and still titrating up my dosage, the results have been very positive.

I have my emotions back. My OI seems to be largely gone. I have gone from doing the minimum to survive until the next day to not having enough in a day to do everything I want to do. It's been a life changer for me

Again though I've only been on it a couple weeks and meds have a habit of losing their effects within a couple months on me but fingers crossed!

A nice side effect is that opiods seem to work much better now that I'm on LDN

I'm not trying to be negative. I think LDN seems like an amazing drug and I feel re-motivated right now after realizing I was taking a fraction of the dose I thought I was. My doctor just called in the 1mg/ML concentrate (I currently have the .1mg/ML) and I'm going to start slowly and increase about 1mg a week.
 

Rooney

Senior Member
Messages
185
Location
SE USA
I'm not trying to be negative. I think LDN seems like an amazing drug and I feel re-motivated right now after realizing I was taking a fraction of the dose I thought I was. My doctor just called in the 1mg/ML concentrate (I currently have the .1mg/ML) and I'm going to start slowly and increase about 1mg a week.
As I heard Dr. Klimas say recently, they are having some good results with LDN in ME/CFS, I am trying to get the drug. It is am immune modulator that would need time to work. It gave me a headache years ago, but the dose was too high, I'm sure.

Looks like I'll be contacting alldaychemist.com!

My fibro friend really likes LDN it so much and suggests it. She did take a break then went back on and was improved again.

Thanks for all this great info, everyone.
 

littlebird6180

Senior Member
Messages
119
As I heard Dr. Klimas say recently, they are having some good results with LDN in ME/CFS, I am trying to get the drug. It is am immune modulator that would need time to work. It gave me a headache years ago, but the dose was too high, I'm sure.

Looks like I'll be contacting alldaychemist.com!

My fibro friend really likes LDN it so much and suggests it. She did take a break then went back on and was improved again.

Thanks for all this great info, everyone.

I hope you're able to get it and that you have great results!
 

digital dog

Senior Member
Messages
646
I took 0.1mg Monday night and I have had a dreadful three days.
It made me extremely edgy, sick, and gave me chronic insomnia. I went downhill FAST!
I cannot even tolerate 0.1mg so I don't see the point of even trying to take this drug.
I am EXTREMELY disappointed.
I can handle most physical side effects but when something makes me anxious or depressed and want to kill myself I have to stop.
Also I cannot take glutamine. I think a few of us here find glutamine problematic.
Actually I can't take anything really so I am stuck with being ill.
I honestly don't know why i bother.
If anyone wants three months of liquid LDN minus 0.1mg then contact me.
 

Raines

Seize. Eggs. I don't know. Zebra. Eighties.
Messages
201
Location
UK
@digital dog I'm so sorry to hear you've had a bad reaction to LDN. I've found your recent posts and questions on the subject very helful in helping me make up my mind about LDN.
I decided to give it a go and I'm currently waiting for an appointment with a LDN Dr.

I really hope the awful side effects you got from it go away soon.

This illness is a reall bar****d